Posted on Oct 25, 2016
SGT Team Leader
42.5K
54
48
1
1
0
Okay, it's been 11 calendar months since my last leave period. I was on Rear-end, then got shoved on Gate Guard for 7 months, came back and went straight to Gunnery, now am in Master Drivers Course. I need leave, my morale is drifting and I feel like I'm getting screwed. I told my PSG I would help her for Gunnery and after that I would go on leave. Now she says "Higher came down and told everyone, they can't take leave until they have use or lose days." I have 55 Day's of leave saved up not by my fault. Am I getting screwed around?
Posted in these groups: Imgres LawUcmj UCMJLegal 6 Leave
Avatar feed
Responses: 31
MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P
10
10
0
As many have already stated here, yes leave is a Right (as defined by Congressional Act) but Commanders have HUGE discretion for approval.

My best advice is to start generating a paper trail. Submit your leave request in writing on the appropriate forms. The AF had a specific form for Leave and/or Liberty. I assume the Army has similar. Submit the form, have the Commander deny in writing and then KEEP THE FORM SECURED! If/when you do end up in a use/lose situation, you'll have the evidence needed to retain those days without them being lost. Not to mention, IF it comes to an IG investigation, you'll have documented proof of denial. Without the forms, all the CO has to say is, "I never received a leave request from the SGT".
(10)
Comment
(0)
PFC Pamala (Hall) Foster
PFC Pamala (Hall) Foster
7 y
Army forms for leave is DA31. MSGT Holt is right-Paper trail is necessary for this and medical.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
6
6
0
Edited 8 y ago
Generally speaking, Leave is a RIGHT (as in Legally & Regulatory defined as a Right), compared to Liberty which is a Privilege. The Commander has LOTS of Discretion about when you can take it, based on mission.

That said, submit the papers, and let them deny it. Don't take anyone's word for it. Submit leave papers. The sooner you submit papers, the better the command can deconflict your schedule with others. No single individual is essential to mission, especially if you are giving lots of notice (outside of deployment schedule).

Citation (Army):

http://www.forthoodsentinel.com/news/military-leave-it-s-a-right-not-a-privilege-granted/article_aaa7cfad-dd88-55d5-8bf2-f491019ba6d3.html

"Leave is a right (not a privilege) that is granted by Congress under federal law."

Edit: Added Citation
(6)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SSG Robert Webster
5
5
0
Before this can actually be answered properly, a little bit more about your unit policy on leave is needed. Secondly, are you getting screwed around - probably, but are you getting screwed - probably not since you are not quite at the use or lose point. Interesting that you mentioned helping for Gunnery, being that you are an 88M (Motor Transport Operator) in what an Armor Brigade of the 1st Infantry Division. Wouldn't that be a normal part of your job? As far as attending the Master Drivers Course, do you not need that for career progression? You say that you were on Rear-end (I am taking that as you were part of the unit's rear detachment) and then spent 7 months on Gate Guard, then supported Gunnery, and now in the Master Drivers Course (local course and not the M9 course, I would venture to guess). My next question - is the unit just back from the deployment or is it still deployed? Next how is the deployment of the BCT to Korea impacting this? You say your morale is drifting; why, because you just came off Gate Guard duty then went directly into some type of training support and then to a Master Drivers Course. If it was Gate Guard duty that wore you down, what about that civilian that was either next to you or on the next over entry point? Oh wait a minute, they chose that and are well paid for that job (??). What is the outlook between now and 6 months from now? A lot of things to think about. How long have you been in this unit?
(5)
Comment
(0)
MSG David Johnson
MSG David Johnson
8 y
I think this is one of the more in depth answers.

But, to answer the original question, the answer is Yes, they can disapprove your leave.
(3)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
Avatar feed
Can I be denied leave?
Maj John Bell
4
4
0
Edited 8 y ago
I went without leave from July 1988 until October 1991 because of either school commands or mission critical billets. So the answer is yes, you can be denied leave. But the command also needs to have a very clear explanation for you, why you are being denied leave, something better than nobody can take leave until they have use em or lose em days.
(4)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
COL Jon Thompson
3
3
0
Like several others have said here, leave is a right. However, commanders can determine when to allow it based on mission cycles and major training events. That should be applied equally across the board however. With the holidays coming up, what are the possibilities of taking leave around Thanksgiving or Christmas? The Army does not do a whole lot during the last 2 weeks of December and first week of January unless they are deployed or in the process of deploying.
(3)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SGT Intelligence/Electronic Warfare (Iew) Ncoic
3
3
0
That's kind of a flip from units I've been to. Normally they prefer you to use your days before you have use or lose.
(3)
Comment
(0)
SSG Warren Swan
SSG Warren Swan
8 y
I'm surprised 1SG hasn't inquired to his PSG why hasn't this NCO taken leave? I know the minute I even came close, I was being told to figure out when I was going to take leave, and if I went over 60, I would be filling out leave forms on the spot. Command groups don't like answering why days were taken from a Soldier.
(1)
Reply
(0)
SGT Intelligence/Electronic Warfare (Iew) Ncoic
SGT (Join to see)
8 y
SSG Warren Swan - I'm down range now and when I return I'll be close and had to explain that I plan to take leave when I get back.
(1)
Reply
(0)
LCDR Aerospace Engineering Duty, Maintenance (AMDO and AMO)
LCDR (Join to see)
8 y
My Department Head holds Division Officers accountable if a Sailor loses leave. You had best have several counselling chits to show that you did your part.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SPC Unscheduled Services Team Leader
2
2
0
Leave is a right. In the Army it's the Commanders discretion. If this is the case in your unit then the answer is simple use the open door policy (every commander has one) be an adult and talk to the 1 person who can approve or disapprove your leave and explain your desire to take leave. If denied you can go higher which will only help because a CPT doesn't want to get their ass chewed daily from a LTC or Col. But they (Ltc/Col) cannot sign your DA 31, the regulation specifically gives that authority to the company/battery commander.
(2)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
TSgt Senior Cyberwarfare Capabilities Instructor/Integrator
2
2
0
Not to bust your chops, Sgt, but have you put in a leave request? As others have said, submit your request and force them to deny it in writing. It sounds to me your PSG is trying to pull a fast one on you.

Had a similar situation right before I retired. My supervisor tried to deny me leave (and I was in use/lose) and tell me I couldn't use it for what I wanted to. I told him I would submit my request and make him deny it in writing and then my next stop would be the commander's office. I took my leave. Know the appropriate written guidance not only for the Army, but for your company/division/brigade.
(2)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
MSG David Johnson
2
2
0
I answered on another post on here but I want to put it on the main question.

From looking at your profile and hearing your question, this is a question you should have been able to research and answer yourself.
(2)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SGT Team Leader
2
2
0
Rear-D*
(2)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close