Gay Army couple says chaplain barred them from marriage retreat

When the chaplain's religious denomination funds and organizes the retreat by and for those in their denomination, then they can decide who comes and goes. When the military funds and promotes the event for all military personnel, then chaplains can do their job or refuse to do their job. Sanctions for refusing to do their job are a different conversation, but the event itself must be open to all service members. 

This is a great thread, but let me add an old Sergeant Major's opinion to it. BLUF, you are confusing your books. By books I am talking about the Manual for Courts Martial (the one you are sworn to uphold and obey) and the Bible (the one we try to live our life by). At the end of the day, the Army says that Homosexuality is ok. Strong Bonds is paid for by through monies allocated from the Army. All Soldiers in the Army shall recieve fair and impartial treatment. If the Chaplain does not feel as though he can uphold to this, he needs to step aside and allow one that can to hold the retreat. If you are finding yourself in an ethical dilemia over gays being allowed in the military, then it is time for you to step aside and find some new employment elsewhere. But before you do, understand that there are gays in all walks of life. While you dont have to support, you must be tolerant. In the civilian sector, being gay will not even cause most people to blink.

What if the CH was aligned to a belief the women are second and one meant for child related activity. Maybe they refuse to care for females as they have no business working outside of the home? Btw not theoretical belonged to that church as a small child. How about something more sever? Read Leviticus or the witches hammer. Church sanctioned torture or murder. Stop me at anytime. But, this is your belief not mine.

So, Article 125 has been rescinded, and anyone can sodomize anyone and anything they want in today's Military. With that news is the Military going to go back and let back in all those who were given dishonorable Discharges under 125 in the past? Are their records going to be expunged of those entry's and any benefits they lost going to be reinstated? So the Same Sex can go to a married Couples retreat? If one happens the other should happen as well, Right?? Time has nothing to do with when it happened...

SFC:

As a minister of the Gospel, I preach that same sex relationships are a sin. I am God's messenger. It's His message. Just as I followed the orders of my superiors when I was enlisted, I follow God's orders more so. My allegiance to Christ offends many. It may offend some in this forum. My duty is not to question God, it is to by FAITH, obey Him.

If you were a member of my congregation, I would preach the truth of God's Word to you in love. The same Lord that commissioned me to preach against your lifestyle is the same Lord who gives you the freedom to live contrary to His teaching. You and I both possess free will. You, as I see it, are following your heart. Yet, the Bible teaches that our hearts can deceive us and can be desperately wicked. My heart was desperately wicked, until Jesus Christ became Lord of my heart and soul. It is His will that all men should be saved from their sins - not that we should die in our sins.

Your respect for the Chaplain's right to hold to his conscience is refreshing. Many times when Christians who believe same sex relationships are sinful try to hold a straightforward conversation with others who support it, we are treated as hateful, insane zealots. We are simply holding to our faith, not hating you.

I don't know you. I may never meet you in my lifetime, but one thing I can share with you is that God loves you. That does not mean He condones everything you do - neither does He condone everything I do for that matter. And yet, while God loves you, He wants you to repent and accept the person He created you to be.

What I have learned from God concerning this matter is that the question is not whether or not you were born gay. The issue at hand is SIN. And as far as whether or not your lifestyle is sinful according to the Holy Scriptures - there is no question at all. According to the Bible, unnatural sexual relations is a sin - whether it be man with man; woman with woman; man with animal or even deriving sexual pleasure from self-stimulation rather than from your spouse. Rather than getting into quoting many Scriptures, I would recommend that you prayerfully read Romans 1-2.

What I counsel congregation members is that God has a problem with sin. It doesn't matter what shape, color or form it comes in. Resisting sin is part of bearing my cross. Even if I did have tendencies to desire other women - the Bible declares that it is against the nature of God's creation and sinful, therefore, I must reject the sinful thoughts. Many times we as Christians want to justify our own sins, but we must confess our sins to Jesus because He died so that all our sins would be forgiven. When I reject thoughts of sin, I am obeying the Spirit, and not my flesh.

What keeps me from murdering someone when I am angry with them, surely it is not the law? It is my faith. My sincerely held convictions that agree with God who says "Thou shalt do no murder." Have the thoughts ever come to me, while a Christian, sadly yes. Yet, my character is not defined by my thoughts and fleshly desires, but by my actions. I don't have to obey every thought that comes to mind. I am not a slave to sin! With the help of God, I can and do obey His laws. The Bible actually commands me to resist the Devil, and he will flee from me. My part is to resist. God makes Him flee. It may come to someone's mind to kill themselves, but should they do it? God has given us power over our thoughts. He has given us His Spirit and nature. The very essence of God's nature is Holiness and sinlessness.  When we become Christians, we receive the nature of our Father by the power of the Holy Spirit. Christ lives on the inside of us, empowering us to keep God's commandments. Whenever we are in disagreement with His laws by our actions, we are subject to fulfill our sinful lusts. When we practice sin as a lifestyle - the final wages of sin is death.

You may be wondering if I have ever had any same gender loving couples as members of our congregation. YES!!!! I counseled them to forsake their lifestyle of sin. I asked them why did they decide to join the church, knowing that I preached that their lifestyle was a sin. Their response was that even though they knew what I believed, they had never felt such genuine love from a Christian whom disagreed with their lifestyle. For one, they had not attended church since childhood, for the other in over 10 years. Why did I welcome them into God's house? #1-It is God's house, not mine. #2-How can they learn the truth if they could not hear it? #3-How could they hear it without a preacher? And that's where I come in!!!!! Just to preach, not force any one to obey the Word of God. What was the end result you ask? One forsook the lifestyle, while the other continued in it.

In conclusion, I just want to again thank you for opening up to a group of strangers about some very personal matters. I used to sin much before I became a Christian, and as a matter of fact, sometimes I still fall short, yet one thing I have learned is that Jesus came to forgive sinners. He forgave me. He can forgive you. Just ask. If you ever need to talk. I'm here. I'm praying for you.

SPC Johnson,

You are truly welcome. I can tell that you are a kind and mature leader. I wish you all the best as well.

There are lots of commandments in the bible. Judaism teaches 613 of them. If homosexuality is a sin that causes leaders to treat folks differently, why not some of the other commandments? Do we criticize folks who wear clothing of mixed fibers? Do we check to make sure not to eat the fruit of a tree for three years from the time it was planted? When are we getting around to appoint a king? My point is there are lot of rules, and we need to take a common sense approach of what we enforce to make a society work for everyone.

There is a huge distinction between performance and ownership.  Are you under the belief that running Sexual Harassment Training means you own the SHARP Program and can dictate policy about it on an individual level?  At the same time, there is little value in having someone run that training if they do not believe in the program goals.  And what do you think would happen if a CDR announced he/she does not want to conduct SHARP training?  In the military, you do not get to decide what you will and will not do on a personal level other than your personal obligation not to follow unlawful orders.  Again, if any Soldier, regardless of MOS, feels he/she cannot conduct his/her basic duties due to personally held beliefs, he/she should seek separation.

Ma'am i do feel as the person running SHARP or AT level 1 training I am in fact taking ownership of the units program, as I am expected to per my commander. Just as the Chaplain was placed in charge, and was thus responsible for it. When it was made part of his responsibility he had to handle it in accordance with the doctrinal rules of his sponsoring agency. 

"Then you go on to call that bigotry? Really? You're a Jew so if you don't believe in Jesus as the Christ then I can call you a bigot? By your own logic you are bigot against the very people you are accusing."  How did you arrive at this conclusion?  Bigotry is discrimination against a person for WHAT they are rather than WHO they are and is founded upon prejudice, ignorance, and assumption. Disbelief does not equal bigotry.  Also why can only chaplains facilitate the curriculum?  Is that an Army thing?  I'm truly curious because I've been to several of these through A&FRC and I don't recall the chapel's involvement.  A chaplain, I think, led one of the workshops, but that's about it; all the other facilitators were civilians. And ironically, I'm pretty sure everyone's favorite one was gay; I know for a fact that the Latin dance teachers they sometimes invited for an ice-breaker were atheists.