Posted on Mar 21, 2014
SGT Cybersecurity
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Why is there such as big discipline gap in the way we train, mentor, and conduct ourselves and manage our soldiers between BCT/AIT and our Duty Stations?


Quite frankly, I think it is because we get complacent. We think we are better than others, we like to be different. Those are the exact reasons that caused me to get in trouble when I was in. When will the NCO corps take a stand and say enough is enough and bring back hard core standards enforcement, discipline, respect, and total Army mentality?


When will the excuses stop, I would hope that many a Senior NCO would respond.

Posted in these groups: TRADOCDiscipline1 Discipline
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Responses: 19
LTC Deputy Division Chief
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Edited >1 y ago
The problem is we have untrained mid level NCOs. Or we promote the wrong ones. Either way when the mid level teams start learning their job and that rank is not a pay increase and a responsibility increase that will help. We also need to remember at the higher levels that we used to be that young Soldiers and teach the lessons learned and be patient. These new kids learn way different.
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
SSG V. Michelle Woods
>1 y
CPT Weber

Sir, you are definitely one of the leaders who developed me! I am proud and glad you see the difference in me because you legitimately always held us all to a higher standard than what our company was allowing. There are MANY things I wouldn't even know was wrong if you hadn't of spoken up!

The degree only helped me with promotion points though. A PFC can come into the Army and get promoted in two years as well. Regardless I definitely see how valuable TIS and experience can be. It's kind of embarrassing telling people I've only been in five years lol.
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SSG Jason Cherry
SSG Jason Cherry
10 y
SSG Woods, it isn't really about the time... it's about the experience. If you have the experience, the skills, and the mindset, it doesn't matter if you are a fast tracker. The Army promotes potential. Clearly you have that, given the discussions I have seen your responses in. I got promoted to SGT at 5 years, and SSG at 9, starting from E1. It took me a long time because I had very poor leadership and it took me a while to realize I had to start doing it on my own. Don't be embarassed, be proud of your achievements. Anyone who doubts your abilities, shut them up with a quiet display of professional excellence.

Pass on your experience, create and pass on your own legacy of excellence.
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
SSG V. Michelle Woods
10 y
Thank you for the wise words SSG Jason Cherry. Very motivational and genuine, I really appreciate it!
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SGT David Carr
SGT David Carr
>1 y
SFC Woods if they do not want to listen to you they want, cause they no you can not do anything to them.
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
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SGT Butler

You're right, there shouldn't be such a huge discipline gap between BCT and AIT.

All we can do is try to ensure we as leaders don't let Soldiers get too comfortable around us. I'll be the first to admit I am guilty of this but I am working on it.

Trust me, I'm learning the hard way that being a nice leader and a good leader are not always the same thing.
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
SSG V. Michelle Woods
>1 y
Exactly SFC Hufcut, I think you worded it perfectly with "People adapt to thier environment. If it is relaxed, fully expect the Soldier to act relaxed when dealing with NCOs."

Soldiers will not follow what we say, they will follow what we do. That goes for NCOs as well. I'm going to follow what senior NCOs do because it's natural for me to assume they are what "right" looks like.
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1SG Senior Maintenance Supervisor
1SG (Join to see)
>1 y
BAM!!! What right looks like!!! Love that saying as it sums up one of the tenants of leadership. LEAD BY EXAMPLE!!
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SFC First Sergeant
SFC (Join to see)
>1 y
From my experience, talking to some AIT PSGs they don't see themselves as the same way DSs; even though they are part of TRADOC and work in a IET level. I enjoyed my tour as a DS and was very successful at it; but there were also DSs that didn't want to be one and/or have the drive to take civilians and mold them into Soldiers. BCT and AIT should be the foundation for Soldiers to report to their first unit with a clear sense of what being a Soldier in our profession is all about. NCOs in TRADOC should be that example and provide that motivation as Leaders!
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1SG Senior Maintenance Supervisor
1SG (Join to see)
>1 y
Well said SFC Campoverde, I really enjoyed my time as an AIT PSG. Hours sucked, but hey that's life. The good ones finish what the DS started. In AIT we continue the transition from Civilian to Soldier and try to get them ready for the real army. I always tried to lead by example.
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1SG Michael Blount
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SGT - Not in any particular order:

Complacency

In addition, line units have a different focus than those in BCT/AIT. BCT/AIT is a more tightly controlled environment and stresses discipline more. Line units have more demands on their time, most assume their personnel are adults (whether justified or not), and things slide downhill.

Unless you're a line unit close to the flagpole, it's tough to sustain the same level of discipline as in BCT/AIT.
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SSG Home Mechanic
SSG (Join to see)
>1 y
1SG, after reading some of the posts above, all have very good points with Complacency at the top. Having that new Soldier relax, be "At Ease" with his or her first line Leadership is not the right thing to start with. With in some units, you don’t want to become known as the “Hard A$$ NCO, or tyrant NCO”. As my son is finding out now, he does make the on the spot corrections and gets told to “Calm down Sergeant”, and he doesn’t. He explains NCO’s set the standards and must do their best to instill them in their Soldiers. If not, he feels he has failed them, me and his grandfather. The bottom line is enforcing the standards while you yourself keep them up.
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1SG Michael Blount
1SG Michael Blount
>1 y
SSG - That gets to be quite a juggling act in a line unit. I once thought telling a Soldier to "relax" was a way to set the right tone. MISTAKE. I cut out that nonsense and go straight for nothing but business.
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