Posted on Jun 25, 2015
Do You Buy This? A Unique form of Combat Stress for our Drone Pilots (Remotely Piloted Aircraft)???
33.9K
233
170
14
14
0
Obviously, despite my efforts not to.... I see the world, and DOD, from a ground Soldiers perspective. And, I suspect there is stress in all sorts of jobs.
I understand pilots (actual and remotely piloted aircraft - drones) have to face different dangers than I did, as well as live the the decisions they make and the damage and collateral damage of their strikes. But, I can't see this as a combat stress. And, I have never walked in those shoes either.
I did considerable research in grad school on shell shock, combat stress, combat related stress disorder, and the PTSD (the current term), and I am not sure I know enough about this new term, but I know when I read the article I actually laughed out loud... As, I just can't see this - feel this.
I know I lived by (shared a duplex) an F-15 pilot in Europe who would fly "Allied Force" Sorties and be back home each night... drinking... I know B2s fly from Whiteman and come back in a day... And, I know whenever I deployed, they were progressively longer... and conditions were not up to the standards my Air Force brothers consider adequate... Again, likely from my very jaded perspective is what probably made laugh out loud.
I also know I have PTSD, and TBI, and that I attended a lot of memorial ceremonies, presented a lot of Purple Hearts, and dealt with more than one incident of collateral damage.
So, help me understand... Because I want to understand this from the USAF perspective.
Claire McCaskill is my senator, and I actually sat in her office several times with my boss, and got scuffed up on issues in the Army and Fort Leonard Wood. She is a huge military advocate, and an unspoken watchdog and critic too.
But, again, I not seeing this one.
http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/military/capitol-hill/2015/06/24/sen-claire-mccaskill-wants-pentagon-to-address-new-form-of-combat-stress/29248023/
I understand pilots (actual and remotely piloted aircraft - drones) have to face different dangers than I did, as well as live the the decisions they make and the damage and collateral damage of their strikes. But, I can't see this as a combat stress. And, I have never walked in those shoes either.
I did considerable research in grad school on shell shock, combat stress, combat related stress disorder, and the PTSD (the current term), and I am not sure I know enough about this new term, but I know when I read the article I actually laughed out loud... As, I just can't see this - feel this.
I know I lived by (shared a duplex) an F-15 pilot in Europe who would fly "Allied Force" Sorties and be back home each night... drinking... I know B2s fly from Whiteman and come back in a day... And, I know whenever I deployed, they were progressively longer... and conditions were not up to the standards my Air Force brothers consider adequate... Again, likely from my very jaded perspective is what probably made laugh out loud.
I also know I have PTSD, and TBI, and that I attended a lot of memorial ceremonies, presented a lot of Purple Hearts, and dealt with more than one incident of collateral damage.
So, help me understand... Because I want to understand this from the USAF perspective.
Claire McCaskill is my senator, and I actually sat in her office several times with my boss, and got scuffed up on issues in the Army and Fort Leonard Wood. She is a huge military advocate, and an unspoken watchdog and critic too.
But, again, I not seeing this one.
http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/military/capitol-hill/2015/06/24/sen-claire-mccaskill-wants-pentagon-to-address-new-form-of-combat-stress/29248023/
PTSD
Combat Stress Control
Stress
Drones
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 43
16
16
0
Sir,
I understand where you are coming from, but I had a buddy of mine who is a Corpsman (FMF, Combat Aircrew). He's now doing EMT for a North Carolina Fire Department, and recently did a few classes on PTS.
One of the things he ran into was the high instances of PTS in Dispatchers, in addition to the Responders. The Dispatchers aren't physically present at the scene, but they take the calls, hear what is going on, and are interacting with the people until the Responders arrive.
One of the "unique" issues they ran into is that they have no ability to affect the outcome of the situation. They are essentially in a "sit & wait" mode, while the events unfold, but they are "seeing" everything as it happens. There is a certain "helplessness" to the situation.
I'm not saying drone pilots are the same, but each person that interacts with continuous operations has a different level of stress. Control tower operators for flight ops tend to be wound a little tight. Dispatchers have a different kind of stress. Drone pilots have to switch from On to Off instantly, whereas ground operators have a different tempo.
I think this stress is more akin to our MP/Police brethren where they are interacting with the dregs of society during the day, and expected to act like everything is normal during the night. If we think about it like that, it makes a little more sense.
I understand where you are coming from, but I had a buddy of mine who is a Corpsman (FMF, Combat Aircrew). He's now doing EMT for a North Carolina Fire Department, and recently did a few classes on PTS.
One of the things he ran into was the high instances of PTS in Dispatchers, in addition to the Responders. The Dispatchers aren't physically present at the scene, but they take the calls, hear what is going on, and are interacting with the people until the Responders arrive.
One of the "unique" issues they ran into is that they have no ability to affect the outcome of the situation. They are essentially in a "sit & wait" mode, while the events unfold, but they are "seeing" everything as it happens. There is a certain "helplessness" to the situation.
I'm not saying drone pilots are the same, but each person that interacts with continuous operations has a different level of stress. Control tower operators for flight ops tend to be wound a little tight. Dispatchers have a different kind of stress. Drone pilots have to switch from On to Off instantly, whereas ground operators have a different tempo.
I think this stress is more akin to our MP/Police brethren where they are interacting with the dregs of society during the day, and expected to act like everything is normal during the night. If we think about it like that, it makes a little more sense.
(16)
(0)
GySgt Curtis L Leetch
Sgt Aaron Kennedy! I think you NAILED that one!!! "Helplessness" (you can stop what is happening, or about to happen), you just try to get the proper assets in the proper places and pray "they" will make it right...
(3)
(0)
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
Cpl George Randitsas Post Traumatic Stress (PTS) is normal. Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) is what is caused by PTS. Just because someone has PTS, doesn't mean they have PTSD.
If you are able to cope with your PTS, you may not have the associated disorder.
This is a overly simplified explanation.
If you are able to cope with your PTS, you may not have the associated disorder.
This is a overly simplified explanation.
(2)
(0)
GySgt Curtis L Leetch
Sgt Aaron Kennedy and Cpl Randitsas, PTS is not uncommon, and is not exclusive to being in a war zone. A bad accident; fire in the home; or other sudden, serious, traumatic events can cause PTS.
Generally, the mind works through it, and rationalizes what has happened. Not that the afflicted person will ever forget it, but the mind had reconciled the event and it moves on.
The disorder (PTSD) comes when the mind, not the brain, is unable to reconcile the information satisfactorly, but refuses to let it go and move on (a sort of fixation... more or less). Sometimes there is no satisfactory answer for why something happens, but the brain can't let it go. The disruption/distraction this causes can negatively impact short term memory, mood and behavior.... translation: it degrades the ability of the person to function "normally".
A Good diet, exercise, an ipad / notepad / day planner, can help with the short term memory problems. If the problems are behavioral (excess drinking, temper issues, fighting, etc), tell your doctor what is going on....
If you start having thoughts of suicide or violent actions... Seek IMMEDIATE Medical assistance (i.e., your Doctor, Neurologist, Chaplin or other TRAINED care provider).
My Information Source:
Johns-Hopkins University Hospital (Neurology Department)
Prince William County Hospital (Neuro) and Gainesville Family Practice.
Generally, the mind works through it, and rationalizes what has happened. Not that the afflicted person will ever forget it, but the mind had reconciled the event and it moves on.
The disorder (PTSD) comes when the mind, not the brain, is unable to reconcile the information satisfactorly, but refuses to let it go and move on (a sort of fixation... more or less). Sometimes there is no satisfactory answer for why something happens, but the brain can't let it go. The disruption/distraction this causes can negatively impact short term memory, mood and behavior.... translation: it degrades the ability of the person to function "normally".
A Good diet, exercise, an ipad / notepad / day planner, can help with the short term memory problems. If the problems are behavioral (excess drinking, temper issues, fighting, etc), tell your doctor what is going on....
If you start having thoughts of suicide or violent actions... Seek IMMEDIATE Medical assistance (i.e., your Doctor, Neurologist, Chaplin or other TRAINED care provider).
My Information Source:
Johns-Hopkins University Hospital (Neurology Department)
Prince William County Hospital (Neuro) and Gainesville Family Practice.
(1)
(0)
6
6
0
All of our stress levels differ, I have the patience of a farm animal, but not everyone is as dull as I am.
Do I think that drone pilots face stress ? Yes I do, anyone who has been tasked with a mission is stressed to some degree. Pilot A might be extremely stressed due to his makeup while Pilot B faces no stress at all. It may have to do with self-confidence.
The issue of PTSD isn't as cut and dry to me. I am going out on a limb here, but other than flying requirements, blowing people up in a manned aircraft and blowing people up from Las Vegas is still blowing people up.
Some just can't take that stress.
.
Do I think that drone pilots face stress ? Yes I do, anyone who has been tasked with a mission is stressed to some degree. Pilot A might be extremely stressed due to his makeup while Pilot B faces no stress at all. It may have to do with self-confidence.
The issue of PTSD isn't as cut and dry to me. I am going out on a limb here, but other than flying requirements, blowing people up in a manned aircraft and blowing people up from Las Vegas is still blowing people up.
Some just can't take that stress.
.
(6)
(0)
Suspended Profile
Col, here's the deal: With advanced standoff warfare, we lost the capability of seeing the destruction we wrought. When we fired tank rounds, or Howitzers or M4's or whatever, we saw the immediate effect of our actions. This tempered our actions and made us think when we shot; we were taking a human life. By doing that calculus and realizing that it's "Us or them..." you are able to cope a little better.
When you do stand off warfare, whether it's with JDAMs, Tomahawks, BQM whatevers... we are disconnected from our battle damage. We don't SEE the effects of our actions, so it becomes very easy for our leaders to order this kind of warfare. Less risk to the troops, and less guilt because we don't see the lives we are destroying. No fuss, no muss, easy peasy lemon breezy...
BUT - the AF drone pilots were tasked with doing BDA after their missions. The didn't have the ability to truly "SEE" what they were bringing in advance, so they had no preparedness. Then, when they flew their drones in low orbits with super high-res cameras to do the BDA, they saw the mangled bodies - often civilian, since a 1000 lb bomb doesn't discriminate - nor does any missile. They can't sort out the civilians at the wedding party from the terrorist who is the "Ace of Spades."
These pilots were not in any way prepared for the damage that they saw, that they realized they caused. So, even though they were out of harm's way, going home at night and working in air conditioned bunkers, they suffer PTSD from this.
It may seem to you as a soldier that this is goldbrickery, but it is very real. I think it's actually a good thing that we are now doing BDA on our standoff weapons. IT brings the human cost back into the picture - hopefully the NCA will begin to realize that standoff warfare isn't as easy as it seems...
Always look for the unintended consequences...
V/R Rabbi Jaron
When you do stand off warfare, whether it's with JDAMs, Tomahawks, BQM whatevers... we are disconnected from our battle damage. We don't SEE the effects of our actions, so it becomes very easy for our leaders to order this kind of warfare. Less risk to the troops, and less guilt because we don't see the lives we are destroying. No fuss, no muss, easy peasy lemon breezy...
BUT - the AF drone pilots were tasked with doing BDA after their missions. The didn't have the ability to truly "SEE" what they were bringing in advance, so they had no preparedness. Then, when they flew their drones in low orbits with super high-res cameras to do the BDA, they saw the mangled bodies - often civilian, since a 1000 lb bomb doesn't discriminate - nor does any missile. They can't sort out the civilians at the wedding party from the terrorist who is the "Ace of Spades."
These pilots were not in any way prepared for the damage that they saw, that they realized they caused. So, even though they were out of harm's way, going home at night and working in air conditioned bunkers, they suffer PTSD from this.
It may seem to you as a soldier that this is goldbrickery, but it is very real. I think it's actually a good thing that we are now doing BDA on our standoff weapons. IT brings the human cost back into the picture - hopefully the NCA will begin to realize that standoff warfare isn't as easy as it seems...
Always look for the unintended consequences...
V/R Rabbi Jaron
COL Charles Williams
LCDR Rabbi Jaron Matlow - That makes sense (PTS) and I understand it pretty well. I understand it comes from many places. I can imagine that feeling or using a weapon, and then seeing the carnage up close... I was not trying to be funny, or condescending, I was trying to expand my understanding. I had to seek help for PTS, as I did not even know it was there... until I broke down on someones office (a military psychiatrist) talking about some things I had seen and done... It is different for each of us.
(1)
(0)
Suspended Profile
It always creeps up on you when you least expect it. I'm grateful that you were in a safe place when you had your aha moment... If you ever need to talk...
COL Charles Williams
LCDR Rabbi Jaron Matlow - Thank you. I had ah moments other places, and I will say, the military has support, if you only ask.
(1)
(0)
Suspended Profile
That is the rub, isn't it. Far too many don't ask, for various reasons...
It will require a huge culture shift to enable troops to seek counseling free of fear of reprisal...
It will require a huge culture shift to enable troops to seek counseling free of fear of reprisal...
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google