Who is responsible for the mess in Iraq and the growth of ISIS?

I'll buy it!

Those that blame Obama have their political goggles on. I so want to blame bush but at the same time whoever was advising him with the WMDs should take most of the blame. The blame don't fall solely on one individual

I feel that everyone of those listed had an opportunity to prevent the current situation. Of course, I like to put the onus on Bush, because he got us in there in the first place. But that isn't what really caused the situation. There was mismanagement of the "winning the hearts and minds" from day 1. State department decisions that should have been military, military decisions that should have been State. Civilians making calls without experience, or taking advice under consideration. If any of the typical day to day SNAFUs had been called out for what they were and elevated to decision makers who understood the 2nd and 3rd tier effects of questionable decisions and actions, ISIS would not be a problem today.

And that includes the State and DoD advisers of both administrations...

Banning the Baathist party -maybe not so bad. Iraqi military infrastructure should not have been so thoroughly deconstructed. Iraq imploded.

COL Charles Williams I am of the same opinion. I also buy into the mindset of "We can't want it more than them" and I believe in a lot of instances we have over the last 14 years. The lack of Phase IV plans before we started is a huge issue. Both "Breaking Iraq" and "Fiasco" are excellent books.
CPL Jay Freeman I don't know if we truly have overcome the racial divide in our nation, and I truly don't know where you were going with that other saying that we should have forced Sunnis and Shi'as to live together. Which is a horrible idea for a western nation to try to force an eastern nation to do something just because it supposedly "worked" here.

Trey Guy I can understand your thought there with forcing this upon them I was just saying with the school idea that it helped. No race is still an issue here but I don't see it as big an issue as it could still be had that not happend. Over all the long haul no one planned for. As Americans where still Pissed over the world Trade Center and it made it easy for Bush to aim the army in that direction if we want to point fingers we can also include bush 1 Clinton and keep going but maybe. This would be for anouther discussion. But we as a nation should have known that devistating a country like this was going to bring issue into raising a new iraq military. To have served there talked to the people in the short time I was there and to understand man kind there is no way they will stand on there own in the next 20 years. Bush Jr was said to have been paid in new Iraqi denar so for that to revalue and be worth something iraq would have to stabilize then the denar would revalue at $1.50 to ours. All in all it is a mess one sodam and the U.S helped make and with out strong support that country will never stand on its own again. The whole area there is unstable and needs tons of help Isis needs to be delt with but how and at what coast plus putting troops back on the ground there we would have to fight harder then ever to prove we care about them as a nation and there people not just an oil thing. I could go on and on about this subject

I remember hearing the term once " if you understood the middle east you would never get involved, but now that your involved you can't get out"

The difference between the African American population during the Civil Rights movement and subsequent years and the Middle East, is that black people WANTED the change, and fought for it. I don't see the local population of Iraq or AFG marching on Mecca for integration and equality. I see where you were trying to go but you failed. Forcing integration on a tribal nation is much like, well... forcing a Democratic government on them. We all see how well that shit worked out. Western thinking can not be applied to the Middle East, the deep rooted cultural and religious difference are a technicality I don't even think they themselves have worked out.

I love the analogy! That's spot on Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS

That's a valid point, however, Military Advisors did stress that the Baathist Party did keep things in control in Iraq. It may have been heavy handed, but it was effective.

Also, the nations that pushed for the creation of Iraq are responsible.

Those that continue the 4,000 year old religious blood feud are responsible.

Also, I believe that people felt that power would change in North Korea after Kim Il-Sung died... then when Kim Jung-Il died... now there's Kim Jung-Un.

We also felt that when Fidel Castro died things would change, however, he's still alive and things are changing for Cuba.

Abu Ghraib and how prisoners were treated created far more insurgents and subsequently aided in the current situation. I recall the average time frame from a prisoner being released to that prisoner setting up an IED was two weeks. The same with when an Iraqi's door got kicked down. Then there's when women and girls were raped.

I had the privilege of being a driver on the MNF-I CSM's security team. This gave me a more complete view of the entire battlefield.

The creation of Iraq was a bad idea... Saddam kept the nation in order the way that Iraq needed to be kept. Saddam and the Baathists were what was best for the mess that is Iraq as a whole. Think of Iraq as county jail that has people that should be in a super max prison... Saddam was the warden, and the Baathists were the administrators, and the Republican Guards were the Corrections Officers.

We as Westerners need to listen to the Arab World and leave them alone.

Remember that the Ottoman Empire ruled that land from 1299-1922.

SPC Michael Clark In the analogy, Saddam and the Baath are the "last piece" holding everything up.

The problem isn't that they held Iraq together, it's that Iraq is also a keystone for "relative" peace in the middle east. Iraq keeps Iran out of Saudi Arabia, etc. The relationships are much like a horrible drunken family.