Posted on Feb 25, 2021
How could we not be gender neutral with our fitness standards?
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This is a great piece from a pioneer in women equality in the Army. I think she speaks from experience and not from ideologies. I really like how she pointed out how different standards affects unit cohesion. How would the person next to you have a different expectation when then have the same position?
https://mwi.usma.edu/with-equal-opportunity-comes-equal-responsibility-lowering-fitness-standards-to-accommodate-women-will-hurt-the-army-and-women/
https://mwi.usma.edu/with-equal-opportunity-comes-equal-responsibility-lowering-fitness-standards-to-accommodate-women-will-hurt-the-army-and-women/
ACFT
Gender
Standards
Women in the Military
Edited >1 y ago
Posted 4 y ago
Responses: 24
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I've been saying this same exact thing for years. It has a major negative effect on unit cohesion when one person has to meet a lower standard than another. Especially when that standard, like a score from a PT event, is used as a basis for promotion. Promotions for E5/E6 rely on promotion points that are received directly from PT scores. How do you tell a Soldier that their peer scored 100 promotion points for running an 18 minute two mile but they received half that for running the same distance in 16 minutes? That creates animosity between Soldiers and undermines the credibility of female leaders.
Even the female Marine Boot Camp Commandant who was relieved said the same thing. She said the only reason females couldn't do pull-ups is because nobody ever bothered training them to do pull-ups. Once they started training to do pull-ups they actually were able to do them. If we keep expecting our females to just be weak and telling them they can't meet the standards then they never will.
Even the female Marine Boot Camp Commandant who was relieved said the same thing. She said the only reason females couldn't do pull-ups is because nobody ever bothered training them to do pull-ups. Once they started training to do pull-ups they actually were able to do them. If we keep expecting our females to just be weak and telling them they can't meet the standards then they never will.
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MAJ Byron Oyler
SFC Larry Jacobs - Actually the gender very much plays a role as when females workout to great limits and reduce their body fat they easily can change their menstrual cycles and ability to reproduce. This should be a woman's decision to make.
https://www.womenshealthmag.com/uk/health/female-health/a708160/body-fat-percentage-women/
https://www.womenshealthmag.com/uk/health/female-health/a708160/body-fat-percentage-women/
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SN Greg Wright
SSG Bill McCoy - I'm not saying we can out-speed animals. I'm saying we can run them down over time, because we can dispose of heat through sweat. The only other non-primate animal that does that is horses and because of that, they're the ONLY animal that can pace us over time.
Taking your cheetah for example, they are only good for short bursts of speed, less than 1/3 mile, if I recall. Humans chasing a cheetah would run one down in very short order when it heat exhaustion makes it stop.
Taking your cheetah for example, they are only good for short bursts of speed, less than 1/3 mile, if I recall. Humans chasing a cheetah would run one down in very short order when it heat exhaustion makes it stop.
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SGT Lorenzo Nieto
Ok I’ll be showing my age on this one way way back in 1967 I took one PT test in bacic training in the eight years I served I never had to take a PT test, at that time how ever there were no females on the line in Vietnam at least not that I know of. I feel for you guys but it’s good to stay in shape as for serving with a female as long as she can cover my back in combat that’s all I would care about let’s face it there are some pretty tough women out there.
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SN Charles Weinacker
Bull shit...females are...men are...anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot!!
In combat...I’ll take a man every time!
In combat...I’ll take a man every time!
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I agree, that was one thing that scared us when women tried out for Ranger School, would be double standards. The thing , women have screamed and fought equality, so why should we try them differently? I was IN all my life, didn't have many Rocks, in the units, just normal folks to worked to be at the standard with high expectations. Now women are leading IN Platoons. I carried my 100+ lb of ruck, LBE and gear and I would expect her to as well, and go just as far, for just as long. What are you suppose to do- "Gee LTC we can't take that OBJ, cause our LT is tired and had to stop?
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SSG Bill McCoy
SGM, I don't think any logical person can disagree with you. Even in civilian life we see the "special" attitudes. One woman came into our office one evening and asked a male peer to change the tire on her patrol van. When he asked if she had a back injury or arm injury, she said that she did not. When he asked her why she wanted someone to do it for her, she said, "Well, I'm a woman."
His reply was awesome. "You get paid the same as I do, and you took that job and it's your responsibility to change your own tire," or words to that effect. Part of his logic was the fact of her always making a big deal about being treated "equal" to men.
She came to me to complain and stated what he had said. My response was, "All things being equal ... he's right and the policy is that the vehicle operator is responsible for pre-operation and post operation checks, refueling, AND tire changes."
His reply was awesome. "You get paid the same as I do, and you took that job and it's your responsibility to change your own tire," or words to that effect. Part of his logic was the fact of her always making a big deal about being treated "equal" to men.
She came to me to complain and stated what he had said. My response was, "All things being equal ... he's right and the policy is that the vehicle operator is responsible for pre-operation and post operation checks, refueling, AND tire changes."
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Love love LOVE the opinion here from CPT Griest. Especially when she shares her own difficulty in meeting the standard, but shows that this is not a problem for the ACFT but a good thing. Her difficulty in meeting the standard proved to be nothing more than showing her where she needed to put in more work. Which she did.
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