Posted on Dec 13, 2020
Am I obligated to reveal my personal expenses regarding bank statements?
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My Unit here st Fort Carson are asking for personal bank statements. I have given them up to my chain of command but I am certain I am not obligated to send them up to my COC unless I am delinquent on a debt by subject to Article 134 of UCMJ. I am not delinquent my Unit has not been informed of any debts as of current.
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Fort Carson
Fort Carson
Posted 4 y ago
Responses: 8
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Are you doing a security clearance?
Are you undergoing a screening for a personal reliability program (nukes, law enforcement, etc)
Are you being screened for unaccompanied access to arms, ammunition, and explosives (armorer) ?
Are you separated with or without a separation Support agreement? Ref AR600-99
Are you divorced and your ex-spouse is complaining about late/insufficient support?
There is no context here at all. I doubt this is a 100% bolt out of the blue. There has to be something else here. Candidly, as a Commander, I never went near a soldier's personal finances unless I got dragged in to them somehow.
Are you undergoing a screening for a personal reliability program (nukes, law enforcement, etc)
Are you being screened for unaccompanied access to arms, ammunition, and explosives (armorer) ?
Are you separated with or without a separation Support agreement? Ref AR600-99
Are you divorced and your ex-spouse is complaining about late/insufficient support?
There is no context here at all. I doubt this is a 100% bolt out of the blue. There has to be something else here. Candidly, as a Commander, I never went near a soldier's personal finances unless I got dragged in to them somehow.
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SPC Dasan Toney
LTC Jason Mackay
No Sir I was not I PCSed to Fort Carson. my Unit didn't like that I was inquiring about Xmas presents when I just got here and the finance office was backed up
No Sir I was not I PCSed to Fort Carson. my Unit didn't like that I was inquiring about Xmas presents when I just got here and the finance office was backed up
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This sounds like one of those good idea fairy things.
No, you are not obligated to turn over your personal expenses to any leaders in your unit; any more than you are obligated to turn over your cell phone bill, credit card statements, or internet browser history. There are times you can be ordered to surrender these things, but unless your command has a valid reason there is no legal claim to demand these things.
I guarantee what happened here is some General decided that the best way to be effective leaders is to be in your Soldiers business. I actually do agree with that, but leadership is relationships, not making intrusive and illegal demands. Your leadership is asking for this because they want to ensure you're not making bad financial decisions that they will have to deal with the repercussions of later.
No, you are not obligated to turn over your personal expenses to any leaders in your unit; any more than you are obligated to turn over your cell phone bill, credit card statements, or internet browser history. There are times you can be ordered to surrender these things, but unless your command has a valid reason there is no legal claim to demand these things.
I guarantee what happened here is some General decided that the best way to be effective leaders is to be in your Soldiers business. I actually do agree with that, but leadership is relationships, not making intrusive and illegal demands. Your leadership is asking for this because they want to ensure you're not making bad financial decisions that they will have to deal with the repercussions of later.
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Everyone is talking about clearances.....I have a TS SCI and never had to turn over any bank information.
No, you do not have to. If they are justified in needing these documents, they can legally obtain them without your consent. (Think search warrant type stuff)
No, you do not have to. If they are justified in needing these documents, they can legally obtain them without your consent. (Think search warrant type stuff)
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LTC Jason Mackay
SFC Kelly Fuerhoff - as I said in my original post. There is no context. I am not trying to justify the CoC action. Also wondering which Co level COC has time to wonder about this with out some impetus to do so.
In the case of the DA SG and DA CP, we , the agency were notified and directed to collect mitigating documentation from the individuals
In the case of my TOW missile guy, we as the CoC were dragged into trying to fix it. Result was Chapter of a fast burning CPL.
In the case of the DA SG and DA CP, we , the agency were notified and directed to collect mitigating documentation from the individuals
In the case of my TOW missile guy, we as the CoC were dragged into trying to fix it. Result was Chapter of a fast burning CPL.
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SFC Kelly Fuerhoff
LTC Jason Mackay - But you were notified by an organization - he said his command has not been informed of any debts and he's not tracking any debts. So that leads me to believe his unit is just being nosy or someone higher in their chain told leaders to do this in a way to pretend like they care or know their soldiers.
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SPC Dasan Toney
SFC Kelly Fuerhoff
Here's how it played out
My COC didn't like that I was inquiring about Xmas presents for my family.
I had 989 in GTC debt, but my DLA was already on it with Covering that.
I had 500 extra in CC debt for my travels, also, my backpay was going to cover that since I wasn't getting paid. Btw.. i got paid today.
I had a plan of action and a means to pay, and they were paid at the cost of my own money and now my wife us upset, I'm upset and all because my COC wanted to counsel me on my financial obligations. He even said he would recommend article 15 UCMJ if I decided not to pay with my own money, and if he found out I was spending my own money on personal items.. also Article 15. So even though there was a means to pay by PCS entitlements, I still had to pay out of pocket or be threatened with no pay
Here's how it played out
My COC didn't like that I was inquiring about Xmas presents for my family.
I had 989 in GTC debt, but my DLA was already on it with Covering that.
I had 500 extra in CC debt for my travels, also, my backpay was going to cover that since I wasn't getting paid. Btw.. i got paid today.
I had a plan of action and a means to pay, and they were paid at the cost of my own money and now my wife us upset, I'm upset and all because my COC wanted to counsel me on my financial obligations. He even said he would recommend article 15 UCMJ if I decided not to pay with my own money, and if he found out I was spending my own money on personal items.. also Article 15. So even though there was a means to pay by PCS entitlements, I still had to pay out of pocket or be threatened with no pay
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SFC Kelly Fuerhoff
SPC Dasan Toney - Wait what? First off it's not their business what you get your family even if you have GTC debt.
You already have a plan to cover GTC and credit cards. So what's their problem? If I had a soldier who I talked to about what's up with your GTC? They showed me their plan and made the payment once the money came in, I'm not gonna worry. And my soldiers all have had clearances in the last 2 years that I had, so they know they can't have any debt.
How the hell can they tell you that you can't pay with PCS entitlements? That's your money - that is your pay. You have some messed up leadership in my opinion. I'd fight that Art 15 if anyone tried it on me.
You need to go talk to JAG.
You already have a plan to cover GTC and credit cards. So what's their problem? If I had a soldier who I talked to about what's up with your GTC? They showed me their plan and made the payment once the money came in, I'm not gonna worry. And my soldiers all have had clearances in the last 2 years that I had, so they know they can't have any debt.
How the hell can they tell you that you can't pay with PCS entitlements? That's your money - that is your pay. You have some messed up leadership in my opinion. I'd fight that Art 15 if anyone tried it on me.
You need to go talk to JAG.
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