Posted on Feb 25, 2014
What is wrong with our troops today? What are your thoughts on this problem child?
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Honor
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I can understand young Soldiers 'running and hiding' from saluting the flag (many don't know or appreciate customs and courtesies), but blatantly disrespecting the very thing you swore to protect and boasting about it on social media? This brings things to another level.<br><br>This young lady should not be a Soldier for very long...there are consequences for your actions and disrespect and dishonorable behavior to the flag should reflect in a dishonorable discharge.
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SSG Marvin Vick
as an ole school soldier, I believe it's has to do with that whole era of kids today verses us long time ago....their values and our values do differ...let's face it they are still those same kids that we see that don't respect their parents, the law, they ARE all in that same generation gap. remember we'd say my parents would not have allowed me to do that? WELL, until kids stop having kids our core values will continue to drop. I say this from experience as a sworn law enforcement officer on the street dealing with those same type of kids.we have more gang members joining just to gain that military experience. we need to get back to basics and ask those that are trying to join the services WHY do you want to join the military. because I believe a lot join now more to further their college education than for their value of serving their country. that's fine to join for that BUT for the love of your country and freedom should be included.
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SGT Randy Kuhlman
This is not a "new" issue; I can recall while at Campbell seeing Soldiers of all ranks either run into buildings or simply remain indoors as 1700 approached. The difference is that none of them posted it on a social media outlet bragging about it. That post by the way was viewed and searched more times than Defense Secretary Hagel's announcement Monday that he was proposing moving the military to pre-WWII levels. To me, this seems like a pretty serious incident if this gal's post gets more hits and searches than the DEFSEC calling to cut our forces by over half.
Now, consider how that reflects on the Army. Everyone here is or was military. We all know how civilians and the America populace think and react--they are a collect group of morons. You know it, I know, and Bob Dole knows it. So, they see this gal's post and think ALL Soldiers feel that way about the colors, traditions, and overall military culture. Now it appears the Army is unprofessional and full of horrible examples of Americans. So, what do you do?
Well, Ft. Carson sent their senior Colonel to discuss the matter the repercussions are being felt from the Pentagon, showing how serious this otherwise minor infraction has become. In addition, the Soldier posted a video to Instagram discussing her regret, but still failed to apologize for her actions and held the tone that it was wrong to have spoke out against her.
So, what do we do? Well, my last MOS was as a paralegal and there are several options for the Army. I could go into them, but that would be a waste of time. What I see coming from this is the Soldier getting a field grade Art. 15, loss of rank, and probably hit with some extra duty and pay. I do not see a court martial coming from this for one reason and one reason alone--cost. Trials are expensive and the minute they attempt to prosecute on this case, then every single other Soldier that does the same actions will be called into question by the defense as to why they were not prosecuted. In the end, I can see the race card being played and it would be effective.
The point is that this Soldier deserves punishment, especially given the amount of negative PR created by her post. She will be used as the example to try and deter others from using social media so immaturely. A court-martial won't happen because of cost. So, that is that.
Now, consider how that reflects on the Army. Everyone here is or was military. We all know how civilians and the America populace think and react--they are a collect group of morons. You know it, I know, and Bob Dole knows it. So, they see this gal's post and think ALL Soldiers feel that way about the colors, traditions, and overall military culture. Now it appears the Army is unprofessional and full of horrible examples of Americans. So, what do you do?
Well, Ft. Carson sent their senior Colonel to discuss the matter the repercussions are being felt from the Pentagon, showing how serious this otherwise minor infraction has become. In addition, the Soldier posted a video to Instagram discussing her regret, but still failed to apologize for her actions and held the tone that it was wrong to have spoke out against her.
So, what do we do? Well, my last MOS was as a paralegal and there are several options for the Army. I could go into them, but that would be a waste of time. What I see coming from this is the Soldier getting a field grade Art. 15, loss of rank, and probably hit with some extra duty and pay. I do not see a court martial coming from this for one reason and one reason alone--cost. Trials are expensive and the minute they attempt to prosecute on this case, then every single other Soldier that does the same actions will be called into question by the defense as to why they were not prosecuted. In the end, I can see the race card being played and it would be effective.
The point is that this Soldier deserves punishment, especially given the amount of negative PR created by her post. She will be used as the example to try and deter others from using social media so immaturely. A court-martial won't happen because of cost. So, that is that.
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SSgt (Join to see)
That is very kind of you and I thank you. I really appreciate your point of view as long as it is respectful. You will find many fine people here and don't worry if some are diametrically opposed to your opinions, it is not personal.
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As unprofessional as this is, it does not warrant a DD, BCD, or even OTH discharge. What she did was disrespectful, immature, and showed a gross lack of decision-making skills, but it was not a criminal act. What she needs (and I'm sure by now has probably received) is a closed-door extended meeting with the 1SG and some paperwork. I have no idea what this E-3's history has been (good troop or bad), but if she has been a good worker and just had a monumental brain-fart that day, a giant ass-chewing and some extra duty may improve her attitude. If she is a problem troop then that's a different story. We may be a one-crime-and-out military, but if we are becoming a one-mistake-and-out military most of us would have been gone a long time ago.
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SrA Zachary Bolling
Sir, I completely agree with you. As a new airman I remember doing the same thing this troop has done but never posted it on FB. I did grow out of it after MY Flight Commander had an "Extended Meeting" with me. I was smoked for about a half hour but then he gave me a good lesson on why we do what we do and why we should be proud. I'm embarrassed that I ever did not want to show my support but I did learn from it with the help of a calm and knowledgeable Lieutenant. This girl does need to be reprimanded in a way that it is a lesson not just a smoke session or verbal beat down.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
Major Brad, very respectfully Sir, I once thought I had committed an error, but as you know full well Navy Command Master Chiefs (and other Service Equivalents) never made any mistakes on our way up. (Listen - you can hear the laughter from my friends and Shipmates.)
I fully agree that ALL of us made mistakes on the way up in our careers and only wise leaders and a lack of internet made it possible to overcome our mistakes and survive and outgrow them.
If the truth is going to be told, I may have even avoided Colors myself once upon a time. My Chief did happen to notice this error on the part of a young sailor and the counseling session that followed was educational, in both tradition and language; I never forgot the lesson. I did manage to pass both the tradition and language lessons on to a new generation of Sailors during numerous "counseling" sessions of my own. 'Nuff Said.
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SGT (Join to see)
I agree with most of what you say. I do however, classify mistakes and blatant disrespect in two different categories.
A mistake is forgetting to shave or set your alarm clock
This is not a mistake.
Good mentorship and the following:
Article 134 summary Court Marshall
It can not result in dishonorable separation, but going back to E-1 fits the crime. If you cant execute simple soldier task that you learned in BCT maybe you should start over in rank as well. If you want to act like an E-1 might as well be one!
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Lt Col (Join to see)
Master Chief Treants...I remember those young and rebellious days quite well! I was very fortunate to have a couple supervisors along the way that saw my lapses in judgment as a product of age and immaturity vs. blatant disrespect. I got my ass handed to me more times than I can count. Fortunately, the message hit home and I, like you, turned into someone that makes no mistakes anymore!! (There's that laughter again)!
SGT Blackburn...I believe we as leaders have an obligation to be mentors first and disciplinarians second. There is definitely a time to be heavy-handed, but it should never be the first option (criminal activity aside...that's a totally different situation). Maybe someone on this thread knows the PFC's history, which would play a huge role in all of this. I have no idea whether she was a stand-up troop or not. I hope the discipline she receives turns her around, but if she has a pattern of this behavior then I agree she needs to lose rank or be shown the door.
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I just don't get why anyone thinks this is ok. Clearly this soldier knew she was wrong for posting it, as she stated to "keep all the that's disrespectful/rude comments to yourself". Wrong is wrong, but if you're going to do it anyways don't be as ignorant as to post it on a social media site. <div>This ridiculousness keeps taking attention away from all the good soldiers are doing. It also gives soldiers a bad name. Unfortunately one bad apple is all it takes.</div><div><br></div><div>It takes about the same effort to hide, snap a picture, post it, and put a heading on it; as it would've to just stand there and salute the flag. You're a soldier be proud, if not get out! </div><div><br></div><div><div>With that being said, the comments people have been putting on these photos are equally wrong. Yes these soldiers are clearly misguided, but that doesn't mean they deserve death threats. Those comments are equally as disrespectful and to bring racial slurs into is never ok! There is a professional way to get a point across and none of it involves profanity and hatred. These soldiers as well as the profession as a whole need to be educated on why this is wrong. </div></div>
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