Posted on Dec 29, 2013
Does presence in the barracks really help? Or create problems?
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So I was reading a different thread (https://www.rallypoint.com/questions/28827-what-were-some-of-the-most-stupid-command-decisions-you-saw) which made me think of a DIFFERENT thread I posted in the past (https://www.rallypoint.com/questions/28135-when-did-the-army-lose-focus-on-personal-responsibility) which lead me to think of this question:
Does going to the barracks really help?
Lemme explain.
In our BDE, at various points people have been expected to visit the barracks every single day, once before midnight, once after. Both a SFC and above and CPT and above per unit are supposed to be there. Then they have to sign in the CQ, BN SD, and BDE SD. So basically you have a platoon of people in each barracks at various points (exaggeration, but still).
I'm not saying this is a stupid decision, I just need some convincing.
Here is my logic:
They want to reduce suicides mainly, but also keep people in check.
1) For the keeping people in check part, it doesn't make sense. We have a SGT, SSG, and SFC at varying levels of SD occupying the desks and making checks. Why are we not giving these NCOs responsibility and forcing it on a DIFFERENT SFC and above? So we can trust the random SFC and above but not the SFC on BDE SDNCO? (scratching my head)
2) For the suicide part...so let's assume that many suicidal ideations are a result of work. Usually it's a "problem" Soldier facing UCMJ and the like, or perhaps financial difficulties as well...but usually that leads to being labeled a "problem" Soldier. So they are all kind of work related, no? So our solution to preventing suicides is to make these people basically LIVE with their leadership? So you see the people at work for 8-16 hours a day, and THEN they come knocking on your door, walking through your room, or at least trying to find you/see you in the hallways in the middle of the night and in the evening. HOW does this help?
This seems like a complete and utter CYA to me and not actually helping.
They say "get back to the basics". When I was a SGT in 2003 we showed up 15-30 minutes early for PT and made sure our barracks were clean and checked up on our Soldiers. Granted that was only 11 years ago, but you get my point. We didn't have constant roving patrols in the hallways of the barracks.
Your thoughts? Feel free to help me understand, because I fully admit I might not be understanding the intent.
A comment in another thread sparked this discussion question. Since when did we lose focus on accountability?Some things are a leader responsibility. But the Army has become much like the rest of...
One of the most stupid decisions I saw was made by my BDE CSM. A female Soldier in one of our BNs was sexually assaulted in her room at the barracks by a civilian who drove her home from a bar o...
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Discipline Suicide
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 12
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If the NCOs and Officers didn't do walk throughs, health issues arise from the unhealthy acts perpertrated by young soldiers, that come in drunk or from the field and don't maintain equiptment to more than a get by standard. It also gives the Officers and NCO's more authority over the younger enlisted. It also teachs self responsibility that what you do to maintain order also effects others, such as now roommates as to the older open barracks. CQs had to be at least an E-5 when I was in and they had all the authority of the 1st Sargeant when on duty.
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Exactly but what is the purpose of the CQ SGT, BN SDNCO SSG, and BDE SDNCO SFC? Why do we need to add EXTRA presence? We don't trust three levels of NCOs?
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SFC (Join to see)
They are there to contact Company, Battalion, Brigade, or Division NCOs and Officers during Off duty hours for any Emergency they can't handle at their level. In other words they are emergency commanders during times of off hours and will organize and prepare at each level for the arrival of the Commanding Officers and SGM's and 1st Shirts to take over on immediate arrival at their duty stations. Like the case of Pearl Harbor, CQs, Bn, CQs, Brigade,'CQs etc got things going asap before the Higher NcO's and Officers arrived. Along with the OD's. They do serve a needed purpose and have the authority to intercede at their level!
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I think we have made the barracks such an unpleasant place to live for the troops, that it contributes to poor morale. I know we are all a "Soldier 24/7", but unless there is duty that needs done, we all want to put the uniform in the closet, and be ourselves for a while. I think this is just more of the toxic, micromanaging, CYA leadership we have right now. We have Soldiers getting into contract marriages, paying out of their base pay to get apartments off-post, basically anything they can to get out of the barracks. We also take their BAS and expect them to eat at substandard DFAC's. For the other NCO's out there who have lived in their own house and had wholesome, home cooked meals, how many of you have really had a good meal in a DFAC? I eat in the DFAC sporadically, and it's not good, no matter the installation. We still have Soldier's living in 1950's era billets that have exposed piping and look like they should be condemned. Then we want to take the Leadership that they feel is responsible for forcing them to live like that and have them bother them all weekend. Not a good mix. I say the CQ sitting at the desk is all that's necessary. I apologize for my rant, but I really feel like we are continuing to fail in taking care of our single Soldiers. It bothers me that we send America's sons and daughters off to war, then after they fight bravely and honorably, we stick them in a dump that wouldn't qualify as Section 8 housing for a civilian.
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The DFAC is good for breakfast, and cheap, but that's it.
I also enjoyed your post, it captured a lot of what I was trying to say.
I can't count how many people don't want to live in the barracks anymore because of the constant attention. Having their door knocked on at 3pm on a Saturday to help GI the entire place.
And with points for both SGT and SSG at 798 for like six months, I actually have seen people think of ETS just because of living in the barracks. Especially people who are a little older.
Like I have a super squared away SPC that is 31 and a SGT that is 33. Both AWESOME troops. Both are like I can't do this anymore. Being treated like children and a constant thumb on my living space.
Also our DFAC is not open all days all hours. It's really a travesty. Don't get me started.
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When I was a single SGT living in the barracks I would get knocks on my door from random NCOs conducting barracks checks at all hours of the night. I myself was required to do barracks checks on my guys who lived in my general vicinity.
Now, I understand it if the Soldier is showing the same signs of a typical high risk Soldier; but it always bothered me that they would knock on my door at 0200 and expect people to get up and talk to them. It was especially annoying at 0500 on the weekends when you are trying to enjoy a day of sleeping in.
Most Soldiers are capable of being treated like adults so why not have CQ keep an eye on the ones that aren't. They have a SGT there for a reason.
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SFC (Join to see)
I had to do these barrack check as a PLT SGT back in Hood. We didn't knock on peoples door at 0200 in morning or at 0500 on weekends. We also rotated who went through with other PLT SGT in the Company on the weekends. We had to go check them least 2 time a week also. Our squad leaders had to check every morning. Few incidents made it so we had to do this. Now with the increased presence some BS stopped but stuff still happened. Simply cause people was getting pissed you was there 24/7 it seemed not letting them enjoy there time off and enjoy there living areas. Which I agree to a point. How would most f us like it if some one was coming to our house checking on us every 2 hours. They just felt like they couldn't enjoy time off. Some of it I think was the ones who as doing stupid stuff though. Seemed most doing right thing didn't have an issue. We also notice a lot more people not staying the weekends in the barracks.
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SSgt (Join to see)
Amen Jeremy. I am with not being harassed at 0200. It also shows a general lack of trust and respect for the troops and as I said there is the CQ and junior NCOs. I think that is good for those junior NCOs to have responsibility.
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SFC (Join to see)
BLUF when you check the barracks, show up when people aren't expecting, and if everything is good, then great. The check is to keep people honest and make sure there isn't a Kegger going on in the barracks, slip and slide beer style, and many crazy other things that HAVE been done. If they know Leaders are in the barracks, they are least likely to try and pull off something crazy, period. Maybe they found somewhere else, true. But the barracks is our backyard, and we are responsible for providing our Soldiers a safe environment to live in.
I don't babysit anyone. I tell Soldiers they are all grown men and women and that Mom and Dad aren't here anymore. However, I do motivate them.
Battles, the army is anxious to clean up a lot of the mess that was allowed in during our time of need/war. When I joined the army it was very garrison and a lot of the statistics of DUI and suicide were much lower. I remember our leaders especially our NCOs had a less demanding op-tempo than what NCOs carry on their shoulders today.
So in an effort to "fix" the army and get that discipline and standards back to what it used to be (when I came in ) automatically the answers lie in "let's go back to what we used to do". And it's being imposed now, while we're still at war with a high op-tempo. And it's hard... because a lot of the leaders work 12 hour + days and there is a lot of demand, and depending on the company/BN leadership this can get out of hand.
Being involved in the barracks is something that we used to do when I first joined up in 2001. However, even the construction of the barracks was different back then, at least at Fort Hood they were constructed above the first floor (which was our unit/work floor). The CQ was placed at both entrances and it was impossible to sneak past there. CQ was not allowed to do anything except their duties and read professional materials. The whole purpose of CQ is to keep the barracks in order.
Senior Leadership involvement in the barracks is important. Leadership involvement in general is very important. Believe me it carries a lot of weight. I've stopped by the barracks before on a Saturday night and they had like a night-club thing going on outside! I put an end to it, and I was there every weekend. And it stopped.
I don't think it needs to be every SSG and above every weekend. I think what our Senior NCOs (CSMs) are expecting is for us to start getting back involved in the barracks, grooming a lot of these junior NCOs who might've not been around back then, to what being a good shepherd of government property means. If the army had it's way it would go into off-post homes too, because there are plenty of Soldiers living out of standards off-post, but legally they can't.
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SFC (Join to see)
I am all for an increased presence, all I am saying is lets make it a little more understandable. 0200 on a Tuesday morning is probably not prime problem causing hours like 0200 on Sunday morning is.
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