Posted on Dec 29, 2013
Corrective training vs UCMJ punishment: What is your take on this?
24.3K
57
21
6
6
0
<p>I was wondering if anyone here on rally point is familiar with this term in reference to UCMJ? A few years ago, I had a fellow NCO come to me in reference to one of his Soldiers facing UCMJ. The unit submitted the flag, flag counseling, and supporting documents to process for a field grade article 15. My fellow NCO informed me that the packet was sent back because the Soldier was already punished for the offense due to the way most of the counseling statements were worded. Most of the plan of action stated something along the lines of..."your punishment will be...." or the assessment section stated...."you have successfully completed all aspects of your punishment..."</p><p><br></p><p>What is your take on this? Have you experienced similar situations in the past? I have spoken with different legal counsel from different installations and get pretty much the same response. I have taken this account when review counseling statements prior to leaders conducting them on Soldiers. I take it as a learning tool and move forward. </p>
Training
Development
Advice
UCMJ
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 7
7
7
0
I can completely understand your pain, example soldier gets a ticket on post for texting while driving. Although you cannot recommend UCMJ action for the traffic violation you can recommend action for failure to obey the post commander's policy on zero tolerance of texting while driving on post. Always have the magic bullet at the end of the statement and I recommend you stick to the facts, don't worry about what article they violated that's legal's job to figure out. The tricky part is refraining from you will get UCMJ, or your punishment/corrective training will be this because you did that. Even if your unit legal buys off on processing the article 15, TDS might recommend against it. When using sworn statements in your packet be careful on how you obtain them. It's best to have your 1SG discuss with the commander about assigning a 15-6 investigating officer if there are more than the one soldier involved and you want all the facts to be gathered to assist legal and your commander with processing. Some times it's easier to recommend administrative reduction for misconduct than using UCMJ. For NCOs a administrative reduction board can be tricky but not impossible as I have completed a few.
(7)
(0)
CPT Aaron Kletzing
Excellent advice here from 1SG Rink. Also want to reemphasize his great point re: sworn statements and how you obtain them. My commander and 1SG got into a tough spot with TDS because of how they obtained sworn statements in a situation like this, and unfortunately it made them look bad to the Battalion CoC. They were excellent leaders and it did result in some egg on their faces, but they got past it over time.
(4)
(0)
SCPO Joshua I
Counseling sheets are supposed to correct behaviour. Many of the counseling sheets I've written end with "further action, to include UCMJ, may occur as a result of failure to comply with the corrective action laid out in this counseling sheet or repetition of the actions that caused it" or some words to that effect. You don't take someone up for what they did that you wrote in the counseling sheet, but if they do it again the counseling shows a pattern of behaviour that you as a leader attempted to correct and the service member failed to correct themselves.
(0)
(0)
This is an outstanding scenario-based question, SFC Ewing - thanks for posting. This is helpful for leaders at all levels. I look fwd to hearing the insights of other members on this one.
(6)
(0)
5
5
0
I knew my fellow NCO and I were not the only ones that have ever faced this problem. It just seemed odd at the time, but like SFC Matthew Jones stated, I eventually saw what legal was stating in reference to double jeopardy. I wish I had a little more knowledge about this subject earlier in my career, because it would have been an extremely helpful tool back then. All I can do now is pass the knowledge on to the next generations. Thanks for all the advice thus far.
(5)
(0)
CW2 (Join to see)
Yeah me too...well live and learn right? I'll tell you what, my 16 months as 1SG was ridiculously eye opening as a SFC, experience I don't think I could ever replicate :/
(2)
(0)
MSG Bobby Ewing
I hear you SFC Jones. My first 3 months in this Detachment SGT slot was a real eye opener. I mean I thought I learned a lot while PSG, but that time doesn't even come close to this. I can honestly, I have experienced and learned more being in this position than all my previous leadership positions combined. The funny thing is, I just hit my year mark at the beginning of this month.
(2)
(0)
CH (CPT) Heather Davis
SFC Ewing:
It is imperative to have a plan of action for the Soldier, and in many
cases, Soldiers are repeatedly counseled and belittled instead of mentored and developed.
(7)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google