Posted on Dec 24, 2013
CSM Command Sergeant Major
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What is your take on this subject? What do you consider to be hazing? What is still being done after a promotion, skill school (Abn/AASLT) or reenlistment etc? We all know what 1SG Carpenter did to newly promoted SGT Roach, hitting him in the chest with a wooden mallet and beyond Hazing, in my opinion, it was assault. What are we seeing still going on that you would consider carrying on traditions? &nbsp;&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>*No name dropping or units&nbsp;</div>
Posted in these groups: Tradition crest Tradition73128deb Hazing
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SGM Training Division Sergeant Major
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First, the NCO induction ceremony is a tradition, hitting your Soldier in the chest with a mallet is not. (I have seen this before but it still blows my mind)

 

There will always be a fine line between continuing traditions and hazing. I will always be a little torn as to if certain "traditions" should still be allowed or not. I can't say that I personally am against these "traditions" (i.e. bloodrank/wings, wetting down, etc) with caveats like does the Soldier have the option to opt out of these ceremonies. The other issue is that it does not matter what I really think or feel the Army has set a standard, as such traditions will need to change to the needs of the Army.

 

There is definitely something to be said for shared hardships creating a more cohesive unit and putting Soldiers on a common ground. For the last decade plus our shared hardship has been one or more deployments. I believe may see a resurgence of these traditions as we wind down, we have to develop the right traditions to groom our Soldiers.

 

 

 

 

 

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CSM Infantry Senior Sergeant
CSM (Join to see)
11 y
Well said SFC Williams and it is up to NCOs like yourself to carry the torch of traditions. More often than not we see traditions like the NCO Induction Ceremony take a back seat to other events on the calendar. We as a Corps have to make time to continue traditions like these. 
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SFC Senior Small Group Leader (Ssgl)
SFC (Join to see)
>1 y

I definitely agree SFC Williams.  While I do miss the days of blood rank and what not, we have to adapt to an ever changing environment, nothing stays the same, and neither can our methods.  That being said, traditions such as NCO Inductions are an integral part of our Corps.  A Soldier should feel pride when they put those chevrons on for the first time, and should be introduce to the Corps appropriately.  My Brigade just did the first one we have had in about two years, it was a very well executed ceremony that made me proud to be an NCO.  Events like NCO inductions, NCO Call are just two pieces of the puzzle that we need to help bring our NCO Corps back to what it needs to be.

 

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1SG Steven Stankovich
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I remember that instance with 1SG Carpernter and SGT Roach.  No questions asked...that was assualt.  I believe that there is a huge difference between military traditions and hazing/assault.  I never saw anything wrong with the awarding of "blood rank" when folks got promoted back in the day.  I never saw anything wrong with "blood wings" for the ABN guys.  I never saw anything wrong with the "thrashing" one would receive while going through a Spur Ride. 

 

 

 

What I do see that is wrong are things like you mentioned, specifically the wooden mallet incident.  A mallet?  I mean really?  There is absolutely a reason to keep military traditions like these.  I believe that they increase camraderie.  There is no place however, for assault. 

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SFC Cornelius Walsh
SFC Cornelius Walsh
11 y

Agreed, MSG - I've had no problem getting my multiple sets of blood wings, and I certainly hope my unit cohesion is strong enough that I'll get blood wings when I get my star. Some things really are a morale builder and rite of passage - the mallet was not one of them.

 

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CPT Keith Steinhurst
CPT Keith Steinhurst
11 y
Is it assault to 'run the guantlet' for one's 'mosquito wings' or Lance Corporal 'rifles' - is it assault to 'kiss the gunners daughter' in the 'Court of Neptunus Rex' ? There is / are a lot of traditions in various branches of service that have no corresponding civilian 'application' and there are some 'activities' that happen in social fraternities that are in like manner, not oscially 'acceptable' to the PC crowd - but fraternities, like military service, are voluntary associations - nobody twisted my arm!
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SSgt Forensic Meteorological Consultant
SSgt (Join to see)
11 y
I remember watching an episode of 'The Unit' and they experienced abuse by the enemy with the Colonel overseeing the whole thing.   In training situations or social situations of that kind,  there comes a point where is the line that delineates tradition and fun and a kind of stealth abuse that a junior officer or NCO might experience.  
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SSG Kevin McCulley
SSG Kevin McCulley
>1 y
When I earned my CMB, I ASKED for it. My dad told me how proud he was when he had to pry his CIB out of his chest. Family tradition.. :)
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MSgt Program Analyst   Joint Certification Program
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<p>When I was in the Marines in the early 80's, anytime you were promoted you had to walk the 'guantlet' (which was your Marine peers on either side of your arms forming a line on both sides - as you moved forward they would 'pin' your stripes on your upper arms by hitting you - when you moved to NCO status you would also receive your 'bloodstripe' on the side of your legs).</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Of course, some people are nice and just give you a soft punch to the arm and/or kick to the leg - but others are more sadistic and try to see how much pain you can take.&nbsp; </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>That is where the problem lies with 'traditions' and/or 'hazing'.&nbsp; There are always those that take things to the extreme and want to inflict pain and suffering.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>In the Air Force, when someone got promoted - they would have&nbsp;a couple of the individual's chain of command stand on either side&nbsp;of the person and 'pin' the new stripes on by hitting the upper arm (for the most part it was never painful), but just like when I was in the Marines you always have some individuals that shouldn't be part of these types of 'traditions' due to their violent tendencies.&nbsp; </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>This is where the chain of command should be involved, they should be in attendance in these types of events - and state ahead of time that unneccessary force will not be tolerated during the ceremony.&nbsp; If these types of events were supervised by higher authorities and kept tame then the 'traditions' could continue without all of the pain and/or suffering caused by those sick and misguided individuals who get off hurting others for no reason.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>
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SSgt Forensic Meteorological Consultant
SSgt (Join to see)
11 y
MSgt Kerwin.   You are right.  People take liberties and go over the line and what started out as fun and camaraderie turns into assault and maybe false imprisonment.
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