Posted on Aug 24, 2014
DOD NCOES schools lagging behind vs officers education systems?
4.11K
11
2
0
0
0
This is a question for all services NCO's/PO's. Being that we have been at war the last 13 years now...do you consider our education system to be outdated? Your thoughts? Are their any solutions out there to make it revelant?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 1
I have a huge problem with the educational opportunities for NCOs vs officers. In fact, it is one of the reasons I am retiring. This is not the Civil War era anymore, and there is no longer a huge economic/cultural/educational gap between officers and enlisted, so I kind of resent that we are still treated as unimportant second-class citizens. So the NCOs have required NCOES schools that we have to go to in order to make us more effective NCOs. I say baloney. By the time I actually went to any NCOES schools, I had already been performing the duties of that particular level of education and learned nothing that I didn't already know. Take SLC for instance. I had already been a SFC for two and a half years by the time I went to SLC. I was made to go even though I told my CSM that I was retiring and that they should use the slot for someone who actually needed it. The course itself was just weeks of telling stories in class and trying to meet vague, subjective requirements on the few assignments that we did have to complete. The info was outdated and unrealistic, and the emphasis was mainly on physical fitness. The instructors were apparently crossfit maniacs, but the problem was that none of the students were. So here you have Joe Reservist who shows up and gets kicked out because he can't climb a rope on day one (I am exaggerating, but only by a little). I think NCOES has become a check-the-block thing (with the possible exception of the USASMA).
Civilian education opportunities are a whole other animal. I can't even count the opportunities that officers have to earn a Masters degree on the Army's dime. It seems like every advanced school they go to (CGSC, ILE, War College, etc.) gives them the opportunity. In my MOS, enlisted have two opportunities to earn a Masters: Naval Postgraduate School and National Defense University - Fort Bragg Campus. Here is the problem: NPS only has 5 slots open for enlisted and warrant officers to compete for. The rest are reserved for officers. Competition is across SOF: special forces, PSYOP, and civil affairs. Can you guess who usually gets those slots? NDU has been identified as an alternative for resident ILE, so now officers are taking up a good majority of the slots for that. I happen to know an officer who made it into the next class over me who had a lower GPA than I did. I was selected to attend by NDU, but PSYOP branch said that I could not attend. I wasn't sure why, until I realized that my 1059 from SLC had not been uploaded to my OMPF in a timely manner. If an NCO is not current on NCOES, he or she may not attend NDU. Thanks again SLC.
Rant over. Now, on to solutions. The solution for updating NCOES is NOT distance learning online. Those SSD courses are a joke. I sat down and did SSD 3 in about 3 hours and it was ridiculously easy. We need an actual leadership academy that is residential, academic, and MOS non-specific. Why do we have separate NCOES schools for each MOS? Doe we lead Soldiers differently in PSYOP than they do in the infantry? No. My MOS-specific portion really only included IPB/JIPOE and the PSYOP tab/annex to the OPORD. This is nothing that a general IPB/OPORD class couldn't have covered. There may be a need for a SOF-specific NCO course due to the unique mission sets found only in SOF units, but overall, leadership is leadership. I envision a course much like ILE for SSGs and another course much like CGSC for SFCs. Then, on to the USASMA. Maybe there could be a way to include the opportunity to work on a Master's degree for those who attend with an undergraduate degree already? The only problem with this suggestion is the sheer number of NCOs in the Army would necessitate several campuses.
Civilian education opportunities are a whole other animal. I can't even count the opportunities that officers have to earn a Masters degree on the Army's dime. It seems like every advanced school they go to (CGSC, ILE, War College, etc.) gives them the opportunity. In my MOS, enlisted have two opportunities to earn a Masters: Naval Postgraduate School and National Defense University - Fort Bragg Campus. Here is the problem: NPS only has 5 slots open for enlisted and warrant officers to compete for. The rest are reserved for officers. Competition is across SOF: special forces, PSYOP, and civil affairs. Can you guess who usually gets those slots? NDU has been identified as an alternative for resident ILE, so now officers are taking up a good majority of the slots for that. I happen to know an officer who made it into the next class over me who had a lower GPA than I did. I was selected to attend by NDU, but PSYOP branch said that I could not attend. I wasn't sure why, until I realized that my 1059 from SLC had not been uploaded to my OMPF in a timely manner. If an NCO is not current on NCOES, he or she may not attend NDU. Thanks again SLC.
Rant over. Now, on to solutions. The solution for updating NCOES is NOT distance learning online. Those SSD courses are a joke. I sat down and did SSD 3 in about 3 hours and it was ridiculously easy. We need an actual leadership academy that is residential, academic, and MOS non-specific. Why do we have separate NCOES schools for each MOS? Doe we lead Soldiers differently in PSYOP than they do in the infantry? No. My MOS-specific portion really only included IPB/JIPOE and the PSYOP tab/annex to the OPORD. This is nothing that a general IPB/OPORD class couldn't have covered. There may be a need for a SOF-specific NCO course due to the unique mission sets found only in SOF units, but overall, leadership is leadership. I envision a course much like ILE for SSGs and another course much like CGSC for SFCs. Then, on to the USASMA. Maybe there could be a way to include the opportunity to work on a Master's degree for those who attend with an undergraduate degree already? The only problem with this suggestion is the sheer number of NCOs in the Army would necessitate several campuses.
(3)
(0)
SFC Stephen Carden
Nice. I was able to get my BS while on active duty, but I did it using Tuition Assistance and I had to do my coursework on my off time. There were lots of 0200 nights while writing papers and lots of lost family time for me. I would like to see NCOs have the opportunity to go to school as part of their duty like many officer schools do. TA is a great thing, by the way. I never paid a dime for my degree and I still have my Post-9/11 GI Bill to give to my daughter.
(0)
(0)
Read This Next