Posted on Dec 1, 2016
Has anyone ever been in a screaming match or any altercation with their superiors?
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Leadership
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Leadership Conflict
Posted 8 y ago
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Lol I put hands on my NCO AS AN E3 down at Bliss. I had an on going family situation going on as my little girl had just passed away. He knew this situation but didn't seem to care much ... not his problem I guess . However he then decided that he wasn't going to sign my pass to go home . granted I just got back from deployment ... My child was in Philadelphia... she passed the night we returned . Since everyone else had okay'd it ...I was told to purchase a plane ticket immediately ... which I did ... him deciding that he was going to hold my paperwork until he felt ready made me miss the flight ...
Clearly he and I have a checkered history... but rather than argue further I took it up with 1sg and Co Commander ... they flat out told me to leave and they'd handle which they did. He however, decided that he was going to try to give me an Article 15 for not signing out ( yes I forgot to do that )
So after gettin back I immediately requested leave ... obvious reasons ...
Next thing you know ... I'm
In his office being told ... I'm a bitch... not cut out for his army... pos...
( he's only an E5 at 14 years in... I musta not been the only bitch... and that's what I said to him )
2 other NCOS sat quietly as the whole thing transpired ...
And I was tired of being disrespected by this man ...
He asked me to repeat myself.. so I did ...
calls me to attention...I complied
Half right face.... I complied
Front leaning rest position ... move!
I stood silently ..
He repeated himself again...
I stood there now smiling
He then grabs me by my collar to attempt to force me to drop...
At that point ... it's game on... touched the wrong Staff Private
( even worse that I hear my senior NCO yell out ... oh shit get em J ... fuck him up Philly ) instead of stopping me .
At this point I thought I'd be kicked out anyway so I made sure he paid for it
... somehow it never got out past them even tho you'd hear jokes once in awhile when he'd say something .. better chill out Johnson just got promoted ... he goin out them hands on you....
He got out a year later with a bruised ego...
Me... I turned out alright
Sorry for the long winded story but I figure you could use some entertainment
Clearly he and I have a checkered history... but rather than argue further I took it up with 1sg and Co Commander ... they flat out told me to leave and they'd handle which they did. He however, decided that he was going to try to give me an Article 15 for not signing out ( yes I forgot to do that )
So after gettin back I immediately requested leave ... obvious reasons ...
Next thing you know ... I'm
In his office being told ... I'm a bitch... not cut out for his army... pos...
( he's only an E5 at 14 years in... I musta not been the only bitch... and that's what I said to him )
2 other NCOS sat quietly as the whole thing transpired ...
And I was tired of being disrespected by this man ...
He asked me to repeat myself.. so I did ...
calls me to attention...I complied
Half right face.... I complied
Front leaning rest position ... move!
I stood silently ..
He repeated himself again...
I stood there now smiling
He then grabs me by my collar to attempt to force me to drop...
At that point ... it's game on... touched the wrong Staff Private
( even worse that I hear my senior NCO yell out ... oh shit get em J ... fuck him up Philly ) instead of stopping me .
At this point I thought I'd be kicked out anyway so I made sure he paid for it
... somehow it never got out past them even tho you'd hear jokes once in awhile when he'd say something .. better chill out Johnson just got promoted ... he goin out them hands on you....
He got out a year later with a bruised ego...
Me... I turned out alright
Sorry for the long winded story but I figure you could use some entertainment
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SSG Brian Pyle
Very sorry for your loss, I can't even imagine going through so much pain. That said, so much is wrong with the situation. The fact that the other two NCO's were egging you on is the worst example of leadership. (this probably says a lot about the Sergeant that put his hands on you, your leadership, and your company). The fact you referred to yourself as a staff private says a little about you. You felt ok with running it up the chain after you missed your flight, but not immediately after he held your paperwork? Why? I have been on deployments and nobody in my unit returned as an E-3.....I think some facts have been omitted. Let's say the story is true, why when you returned during the confrontation did you not leave the room and go directly to the 1SG or Commander, by your own words they were aware of the situation? I find it hard to believe that the 1SG or the Commander didn't have the request for the Article 15 come across their desk and stop the progress to investigate further? Again very sorry for your loss, but little to nothing about the about the events ring true, or at least not totally forthcoming about what actually happened.
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Sgt Michael Clifford
I observed a similar incident. A young PFC who was a bit of a diddybob but had some leadership potential when he maturesd a little. Apparently he irked the platton sgt. a staff sergeant who made his rank on the drill field and embassy duty. In the NCO quarters doorway he started messing with the kid. Then he grabbed the kid by the collars and was pushing. Before you could blink the kid hit him twice. The Lt and a couple of squad leaders were present. Staff Sgt. was powerless to do anything because he put his hands on the kid first. This occured late in my second input and I was transferred within a week or two but I am guessing that life didn't get better for the kid.
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LTC Martin Glynn
I’m truly sorry about the loss of your daughter.
As a commander, any NCO who threatened any Soldier with an Article 15 was on my sh*tlist, and would be getting some corrective training from the 1SG or CSM.
NCO’s can’t give anyone an Article 15; they can only recommend punishment under Article 15 of the UCMJ to a commander who has the UCMJ authority to impose it. So any NCO who threatens a Soldier with an Article 15 is basically saying that he thinks he can tell the commander what to do.
I have held both company grade and field grade UCMJ authority, and I used it sparingly and reluctantly. I became a commander to lead Soldiers, not to punish them. In all the years that I was in command, there were actually more Soldiers who had to be court-martialed (for criminal offenses / unavoidable reasons) than Soldiers who received non-judicial punishment under Article 15 from me.
I firmly believe that corrective training from good NCO’s is far superior to punishment under Article 15. So unless an NCO was able to convince my 1SG / CSM that a Soldier was deliberately ignoring the lessons of NCO corrective training and an Article 15 was absolutely necessary, it wasn’t likely that I would be issuing one.
As a commander, any NCO who threatened any Soldier with an Article 15 was on my sh*tlist, and would be getting some corrective training from the 1SG or CSM.
NCO’s can’t give anyone an Article 15; they can only recommend punishment under Article 15 of the UCMJ to a commander who has the UCMJ authority to impose it. So any NCO who threatens a Soldier with an Article 15 is basically saying that he thinks he can tell the commander what to do.
I have held both company grade and field grade UCMJ authority, and I used it sparingly and reluctantly. I became a commander to lead Soldiers, not to punish them. In all the years that I was in command, there were actually more Soldiers who had to be court-martialed (for criminal offenses / unavoidable reasons) than Soldiers who received non-judicial punishment under Article 15 from me.
I firmly believe that corrective training from good NCO’s is far superior to punishment under Article 15. So unless an NCO was able to convince my 1SG / CSM that a Soldier was deliberately ignoring the lessons of NCO corrective training and an Article 15 was absolutely necessary, it wasn’t likely that I would be issuing one.
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Behind closed doors, heated discussions, absolutely. In front of the kids....NEVER
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SGM Erik Marquez
LT William Pellegrini - "All junior officers should look in the mirror and admit that they don't know anything about how to do their jobs"
I will politely and professionally disagree, while a common perception. I will counter with who in the platoon has been given the latest most up-to-date doctrinal information...the same information senior leaders at the DIV and BDE are using to drive the battalion or Bde.... Thats the SM I want to use to fullest advantage
I will politely and professionally disagree, while a common perception. I will counter with who in the platoon has been given the latest most up-to-date doctrinal information...the same information senior leaders at the DIV and BDE are using to drive the battalion or Bde.... Thats the SM I want to use to fullest advantage
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LT William Pellegrini
Hmm. I had a problem in opening the above comment. I guess what I was trying to say was, as an ensign I didn't know how to do what I was tasked with doing. To tell the truth I was more than a bit afraid of that fact. I know what I was supposed to do, which is lead, but how to do that correctly is a totally different matter. Luckily I had help from two sources. First was an LDO who was in charge of the Division that my people were in. The second was the CPO who ran the Shop that I was in charge of. Between them and a couple of 1st class sailors I managed to do a pretty good job. Again, I knew what the job was, didn't know how to do it. Sorry for the confusion on my part.
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SFC Kevin Childers
Once with our air ops NCO, and it wasn't because he tried to pull us into being a DZ party the day after we came back from a 6 month deployment. It was because he dared to hang up on me while we were still discussing it. CSM solved the issue and told the ops shop staff I wasn't really mad, it was just a matter of courtesy.
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SPC Matt Ovaska
I was told 2nd Lt's lasted about 2 weeks in Nam. I was up for OCS and turned it down. 90 day wonders were in short supply. I would be interested in the number of 2nd Lt's on the wall. all those purple hearts from friendly fire. A dark time in history. So sad.
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I don't have "superiors." I have seniors. I have been in VERY "heated discussions" with my seniors at times (because of safety or HUGE morale concerns they hadn't considered). I have always attempted to shift those discussions outside "public view" however. Sometimes you have to tell the boss they're wrong. If you don't, his boss will, and his boss will be less nice than you will. You won't hurt his career (only his ego). His boss has the potential to do both.
If your senior can't handle you being honest (and as TACTFUL as the situation calls for), then sometimes you need to escalate the "discussion parameters" up a hair.
If your senior can't handle you being honest (and as TACTFUL as the situation calls for), then sometimes you need to escalate the "discussion parameters" up a hair.
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SSG Robert Pratt
I once got into it with an SFC. He told be I had an attitude problem, I told him he gave it to me. We got along just fine after that.
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SP5 Floyd Raff
I was deployed to Iraq in 05 having just returned from R&R I was not back on duty but in the company area. The supply Ssgt told me I needed to sign my hand receipt. I told him I already signed it. He replied I am not in the mood for smart ass comments I will talk to the commander and have him issue you a directive to sign it. realizing that I was in the wrong ( this paperwork gets signed annually and it had been a year) I walked into the supply room and asked the e-5 where my hand receipt was so I could sign it. Him having heard the conversation I had with the E-6 made a comment about him "putting my attitude problem in check" . I then explained to the E-5 " I don't have an attitude problem Ssssgt has a perception problem, as I have not seen this gear in over 60 days i was not legally obligated to to sign the hand receipt before I had the oppertunity to get back to my section and conduct an inventory of said gear to ensure that it was intact and serviceable I was not required to sign the paperwork. but Ssgt having to deal with 300 people he did not need me mouthing off to him right or wrong and nobody told me my stuff had been blown up I had confidence that it was where I left it. So I sign the paper work and moved on. 3 months later I asked Ssgt for a pair of botlaces and he handed me a whole new pair of boots.
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SSG Raul Alaniz
SGT Aaron Kennedy-AGREED on "discussion parameters" but you still have to be just a little careful in how you address Seniors NCO and Officers. From what I'm hearing in this post, on how lower enlist out did NCO's and/or NCO's out did Officers, that is not always the case, you still can get burned on being disrespectful. It can happen and I've seen it happen, I'm a 20 year retired Veteran, I've had my share of arguments, excuse me discussions, but Always, Always with TACT, and believe me I have been tested, on both sides of the house, and I'm no angel.
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