Posted on Aug 16, 2016
Should the military service branches bring back the separate club system for Officers, NCOs, and Enlisted Service Members?
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RP Members and Connections most of the separate Officers, NCO, and Enlisted Clubs on most bases went away during my tenure in the service and transitioned over to Community ALL Rank Clubs.
Was this a good move or a bad move? Has the move to all ranks clubs changed the services culture?
Good or bad - your feedback is welcome
Was this a good move or a bad move? Has the move to all ranks clubs changed the services culture?
Good or bad - your feedback is welcome
Entertainment
Officers
NCOs
Enlisted
What Would You Do
Edited 8 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 155
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Yes. When you tell enlisted Soldiers they can't hang out with NCOs and NCO they can't hang out with officers, (and vice versa) and then you give them one place to hang out, you're going to have issues.
When I was a young troop we liked to get roudy. As a senior NCO, not so much. I just wanted to sit and have beer or 6. I no longer wanted to play drinking games or get in a braul. And when I was wearing civies, I didn't want to play "What's your rank? Do you know who I am?" I don't give a shit. I just want to drink in quiet.
When I was a young troop we liked to get roudy. As a senior NCO, not so much. I just wanted to sit and have beer or 6. I no longer wanted to play drinking games or get in a braul. And when I was wearing civies, I didn't want to play "What's your rank? Do you know who I am?" I don't give a shit. I just want to drink in quiet.
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MSG (Join to see)
enlisted + nco's + officers + alcohol=trouble, sure this might be a good time to bond with your sm's , but there will be that one who cant handle the booze and all hell will break out
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SFC Gary Fox
I remember back in the day when there were separate clubs for EMs, NCOs, and officers and the club manager positions were an MOS. The club system began to deteriorate once they eliminated those MOSs and began hiring civilians to be club managers. To answer the question; yes there should be separate clubs for EMs, NCOs, and Officers. Clubs started deteriorating even more when the separate clubs were eliminated and replaced with "all ranks" clubs. NCOs and officers do not participate in the all ranks clubs because the potential for an intoxicated soldier to confront one of their NCOs or officers is too great.
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SFC Jim Ruether
SFC Gary Fox - I liked the club system back in the day. Didn't have to drink with the officers and didn't want to cause they had their "O" club. Didn't want to answer questions from junior enlisted when I went there cause those soldiers were in the snack bar or enlisted club. NCO club was a nice place to escape to. Shoot the breeze and have a few and then slide out of there and head back to the barracks.
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CPT Louie Ramirez
Absolutely! and bring back the Battalion Mess Hall along with staff duty assignments.. These were Army traditions and culture. I lived through all the changes and can look back and understand that the US ARMY lost something doing away with "O Club" and the NCO Club, KHAKI CLASS B, BN Mess Hall. USA 1980-84 USAR 1988-2005
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I liked the old system as it gave soldiers a place to go with their peers where they didn't have to keep up appearances.
Regardless of rank, the correct club was always comfortable, and getting invited to a function or event at a different club was a special treat. I think my best club experience was as a young soldier getting invited by the 1SG along with everyone who scored 270 or better on the PT test to the NCO club to celebrate. Even the two officers who scored 270+ were invited, and it was an honor for all of us.
I was also invited to the NCO club once as a 1LT by one of the E6s for his promotion party to E7. Again, it was a real honor.
Regardless of rank, the correct club was always comfortable, and getting invited to a function or event at a different club was a special treat. I think my best club experience was as a young soldier getting invited by the 1SG along with everyone who scored 270 or better on the PT test to the NCO club to celebrate. Even the two officers who scored 270+ were invited, and it was an honor for all of us.
I was also invited to the NCO club once as a 1LT by one of the E6s for his promotion party to E7. Again, it was a real honor.
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CSM (Join to see)
I liked the old system. It changed because people weren't using the clubs enough to make having three of them cost efficient.
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MSgt Frank Martin
Half the time the reasons the clubs are not being used is... value for what you paid for in dues. I mean when they combined the NCO and the Officers Clubs at Hill AFB UT in the 1990's.. there was the Enlisted Bar.. and the Officers Bar. Discontinued Meal Service to the Enlisted Side of the House (Except bar food like mini pizza etc) while the Officers were given a full dinning service.
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I have two schools of thought on this...Stateside and remote.
1.) Stateside...When the services combined the clubs, it was the downfall of the club system. Not that anyone was better than the other, but officers needed to go hang out with other officers. It was a place for junior officers to socialize with senior officers outside of the work environment and the same for NCO's. When the clubs were combine it became tough for Commanders and supervisors and SNCO's to let their hair down so to speak because their bosses or subordinates were there. the second part of the stateside is when we began deploying at the rate we are deploying now. When I am home, I want to be with my family...not the people I spend months on end with in the desert and 14 -15 hours a day at work. Deployments took a chunk out of that I believe. On top of that a lot of people live downtown and not on base as it isn't required any longer with privatized housing unless you are in a special position. Therefore, they go downtown to clubs.
2.) Remote or overseas...they need to stay separate for the first part of the previous discussion. Officers need a place to hang out with other officers and NCO's the same...especially remote and overseas tours. There usually aren't many options for downtown entertainment.
I believe combining the two was the knife in the throat that started the slow bleed of the clubs. Now, most are on life support just to stay open. By combining them you are also opening the door for fraternization when folks get loudmouth superman soup in their bodies and aren't thinking correctly.Combining the two, limiting alcohol sales, limiting hours etc is why they are a thing of the past.
1.) Stateside...When the services combined the clubs, it was the downfall of the club system. Not that anyone was better than the other, but officers needed to go hang out with other officers. It was a place for junior officers to socialize with senior officers outside of the work environment and the same for NCO's. When the clubs were combine it became tough for Commanders and supervisors and SNCO's to let their hair down so to speak because their bosses or subordinates were there. the second part of the stateside is when we began deploying at the rate we are deploying now. When I am home, I want to be with my family...not the people I spend months on end with in the desert and 14 -15 hours a day at work. Deployments took a chunk out of that I believe. On top of that a lot of people live downtown and not on base as it isn't required any longer with privatized housing unless you are in a special position. Therefore, they go downtown to clubs.
2.) Remote or overseas...they need to stay separate for the first part of the previous discussion. Officers need a place to hang out with other officers and NCO's the same...especially remote and overseas tours. There usually aren't many options for downtown entertainment.
I believe combining the two was the knife in the throat that started the slow bleed of the clubs. Now, most are on life support just to stay open. By combining them you are also opening the door for fraternization when folks get loudmouth superman soup in their bodies and aren't thinking correctly.Combining the two, limiting alcohol sales, limiting hours etc is why they are a thing of the past.
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SFC Jim Ruether
I think that drinking in the military has all but disappeared since I was in or they do it more discreetly than the all nighters I used to attend. I remember seeing the Commander and some of the Senior NCO's having a beer and then leaving the party, only to be waiting for us at morning formation and hell would be paid if you missed formation. Soldiers were filtering in from every building in the area to join the formation. Some in their party clothes and some in their skivvies but they made it back all the same.
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PO2 Michael Han
Separate clubs was/is the way to go O clubs allowed junior officers to socialize with senior officer enlisted clubs to E4 was the way to go new enlisted mind set differ from E5 and above as NCOs were usually in a more mature mindset. Each club allow the ranks to socialize independently let their hair down without reprisals in a way kept their military life separate from private life.
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CSM Charles Hayden
SSgt Boyd Herrst Married service members with spouse and children awaiting their arrival home after work contributed mightily to the demise of the club system.
Combining clubs meant combining the music and or entertainment.
I was last in a club at Knox in ? 1995? At that time, dinners were being served in a restaurant type room adjacent to a bar type room.
The music emanating from the bar room caused me to return to the transit barracks and eat cold crap from their mini-bar in peace and quiet!
Combining clubs meant combining the music and or entertainment.
I was last in a club at Knox in ? 1995? At that time, dinners were being served in a restaurant type room adjacent to a bar type room.
The music emanating from the bar room caused me to return to the transit barracks and eat cold crap from their mini-bar in peace and quiet!
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LtCol Bruce Janis
SFC Jim Ruether -
Abt 10 years ago Delta screwed up my flight plans and as partial payment gave me a bunch of booze coupons. I wasn't going to put down 15 drinks on a flight so tried to give it to some troops in camo waiting for their flight home. Couldn't give them away. I wasn't sure that today's Army and Marines had given up drink or they were afraid to drink in public. Very discouraging from the heavy drinkers I knew in the Nam.
Abt 10 years ago Delta screwed up my flight plans and as partial payment gave me a bunch of booze coupons. I wasn't going to put down 15 drinks on a flight so tried to give it to some troops in camo waiting for their flight home. Couldn't give them away. I wasn't sure that today's Army and Marines had given up drink or they were afraid to drink in public. Very discouraging from the heavy drinkers I knew in the Nam.
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