Posted on Jun 20, 2014
What is everyone's opinion on NCOs dating junior enlisted soldiers?
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Hello Leaders,
What is everyone's opinion on NCOs dating lower enlisted soldiers? Example: a SGT and a SPC different brigades but work in the same building?
What is everyone's opinion on NCOs dating lower enlisted soldiers? Example: a SGT and a SPC different brigades but work in the same building?
Posted in these groups: 
Fraternization
Fraternization
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 62
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A few points regarding NCOs dating lower enlisted Soldiers:
- As far as I am tracking, officers and enlisted can not date (called fraternization) but NCOs dating junior enlisted is not specifically unauthorized per Army Regulation.
- METT-TC. Short way of saying the answer depends a lot upon the specific circumstances of the situation. Some of the variables can include:
- Rank discrepancy. Just as I would not have a problem with a high school freshman dating an 8th grader but I would have a problem with a high school senior dating a 7th grader; I would generally not have a problem with a SGT dating a SPC but I would have a problem with a SGM/1SG/SFC dating a PFC.
- Age discrepancy. The average SPC is probably about 22 years old but a SPC could be 38 years old. The average SFC is proabably about 38 years old. If the two Soldiers are relatively close in age then this could mitigate a rank discrepancy. Goes to life experience and maturity.
- Chain of command. Dating within the same chain of command is definitely a red flag issue as this is generally detrimental to good order and discipline.
- Appearances and perceptions. Even if not within the same chain of command. Does the dating create the appearance or perception of favoritism or other issues detrimental to the good order and discipline within either command? If so then the dating should not occur.
- As far as I am tracking, officers and enlisted can not date (called fraternization) but NCOs dating junior enlisted is not specifically unauthorized per Army Regulation.
- METT-TC. Short way of saying the answer depends a lot upon the specific circumstances of the situation. Some of the variables can include:
- Rank discrepancy. Just as I would not have a problem with a high school freshman dating an 8th grader but I would have a problem with a high school senior dating a 7th grader; I would generally not have a problem with a SGT dating a SPC but I would have a problem with a SGM/1SG/SFC dating a PFC.
- Age discrepancy. The average SPC is probably about 22 years old but a SPC could be 38 years old. The average SFC is proabably about 38 years old. If the two Soldiers are relatively close in age then this could mitigate a rank discrepancy. Goes to life experience and maturity.
- Chain of command. Dating within the same chain of command is definitely a red flag issue as this is generally detrimental to good order and discipline.
- Appearances and perceptions. Even if not within the same chain of command. Does the dating create the appearance or perception of favoritism or other issues detrimental to the good order and discipline within either command? If so then the dating should not occur.
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There is nothing stopping a SGT from dating a SPC, as long as the SGT isn't in charge of the SPC. As for working in the same building, as long as they can remain professional, why not.
*EDIT* This answer was prior to the regulation change that precludes Enlisted and NCOs from dating.
*EDIT* This answer was prior to the regulation change that precludes Enlisted and NCOs from dating.
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SMSgt (Join to see)
As the Colonel stated above - Appearances and perceptions. Even if not within the same chain of command. Does the dating create the appearance or perception of favoritism or other issues detrimental to the good order and discipline within either command? If so then the dating should not occur.
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SGM (Join to see)
SMSgt..the problem with all these canned rules is that the strength of a strong meaningful relationship can be lifelong...and the couple, if they are truly in love, really should not be held back by regulations about so called perceptions that will not mean much once they move to different units anyways. I guess my point is I totally understand the "Rules" but human affection is far greater than rules and if a couple has a true potential lasting relationship, well, that is what life is about. I never dated anyone in the military and I have been in over 32 years and I eventually married outside of the military. However, I know may who did and some who could have been targeted for so called "fraternization" under the "Rules". But they were solid honest couples and many of them went on to fruitful marriages.
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SSG Dennis Wood
600-20 changed 6Nov 14. NCO's can not date enlisted. Here is an overview. https://www.army.mil/article/138222
Army updates reg defining inappropriate relationships
Gossip -- arguably a favorite
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New changes to AR 600-20, dated 22 October 2014
read para 4-14
"(2) Dating, shared living accommodations other than those directed by operational requirements, and intimate or sexual relationships between officers and enlisted personnel, or NCOs and junior enlisted Soldiers. This prohibition
does not apply to the following"
This says NCO's and junior enlisted cannot date. If the status changes while they are in a relationship they have to break it off or marry within one year.
read para 4-14
"(2) Dating, shared living accommodations other than those directed by operational requirements, and intimate or sexual relationships between officers and enlisted personnel, or NCOs and junior enlisted Soldiers. This prohibition
does not apply to the following"
This says NCO's and junior enlisted cannot date. If the status changes while they are in a relationship they have to break it off or marry within one year.
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SGM (Join to see)
"If the status changes while they are in a relationship they have to break it off or marry within one year." I have a serious problem with this statement. Because....No 2 relationships are ever the same, and to categorize everyone of them into a time frame like this is weird..at best.
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Suspended Profile
You are free to have issues leith the statements but that is the regulation. As a senior NCO you are expected to enforce it, regardless of you me personal opinions. SGM (Join to see) -
SGM (Join to see)
SGM...I got it..and I understand...But this is a board about opinions..it's not an official military correspondence. And I have always followed regulations. However, with that stated, I also believe in thinking outside the box and when it comes to relationships, its not always cut and dry. Relationships are not a math equation, or a matrix to brief to the colonel, or a budget decision. Relationships can be for a lifetime, and it's not always an issue that can fit neatly into a regulation. As a Christian man, I take relationships very serious, and no one should be telling anyone how long it takes for them to get married. Marriage is ( or should be ) thought of as a lifelong commitment, that which goes beyond the scope of an Army Career.
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SGT (Join to see)
Does this regulation go between branches as well? Like an NCO in the Army dating a lower enlisted sailor?
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