Posted on Apr 20, 2014
Why does the Army not relieve poor leaders of command?
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We are quick to cut NCOs and Jr Enlisted for infractions, but we fail to hold officers to the same standard. If you UCMJ an NCO for DUI, why do officers get a pass? What about extra-marital affairs? I don't understand how officers can hold ourselves so high and be above the standard. The Navy is pretty quick to fire command personnel. Why does the Army choose to keep bad leaders in command, just to allow them to save face?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 16
Sir I don't know what you know obviously (by the sound of your claims) but I have seen plenty of Officers "dealt with". I can tell you that I have even seen a COL relieved because his higher leaders lost faith in his leadership abilities, I have witnessed another COL be relieved of his Garrison command because of extramarital affairs, I could tell you the stories of BG Sinclair but I'm sure you know all about that one.
I knew and served under all three of the leaders I mentioned, and those are just a few examples. In that time, I have known of one 1SG to be court martialed, and one SGM be relieved.
I think it is a matter of perspective!
I knew and served under all three of the leaders I mentioned, and those are just a few examples. In that time, I have known of one 1SG to be court martialed, and one SGM be relieved.
I think it is a matter of perspective!
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MAJ Ken Landgren
CPT (Join to see) - Your perspective is skewed. There are plenty of stories regarding officers being relieved of commands and forced to retire.
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SGM Erik Marquez
SPC Nancy Greene - "SPC Nancy Greene 15 h
The CG of the Post in Germany was directly responsible for the death of two Soldiers and there was Absolutely NO action taken against Him! I was there! I assisted in processing these Soldier’s Paperwork! How do You account fir THAT ?"
The lack of perspective a very junior enlisted person would have and complete lack of facts known to those that investigated and adjudicated any case such as you describe leave you inadequate to make such a bold claim. Never mind one with zero substance and fact.
Clearly you have a personal opinion that a commanding general "was directly responsible for the death of two Soldiers" and hat is fine... Though if it as you claim "NO action taken against Him! " Id bet the facts those with actually knowledge of the investigation felt otherwise.
So for entertainment purposes, if your willing to risk personal legal issues of making such a claim with the unit, date and names attached to your claim ..Feel free to do so, I would love to research it. BUT be advised, the person you name will be contacted as part of that research and your public statements made known.
Suggest you research the terms "Defamation of character" and "libel" before posting
The CG of the Post in Germany was directly responsible for the death of two Soldiers and there was Absolutely NO action taken against Him! I was there! I assisted in processing these Soldier’s Paperwork! How do You account fir THAT ?"
The lack of perspective a very junior enlisted person would have and complete lack of facts known to those that investigated and adjudicated any case such as you describe leave you inadequate to make such a bold claim. Never mind one with zero substance and fact.
Clearly you have a personal opinion that a commanding general "was directly responsible for the death of two Soldiers" and hat is fine... Though if it as you claim "NO action taken against Him! " Id bet the facts those with actually knowledge of the investigation felt otherwise.
So for entertainment purposes, if your willing to risk personal legal issues of making such a claim with the unit, date and names attached to your claim ..Feel free to do so, I would love to research it. BUT be advised, the person you name will be contacted as part of that research and your public statements made known.
Suggest you research the terms "Defamation of character" and "libel" before posting
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SPC Nancy Greene
Completely understand. The situation was the monthly Division three mile run. The parimutuel if post was only one mile. So, CG , assembled entire post in Division Formation and ran out front gate and down two lane highway and back around to complete three mile run. In Northern Germany in winter months the sun doesn’t rise until around 1000. The Post was located on HWY B6. In book of records as one of most dangerous HWY. I was assembled in parking lot and ( due to P3 Profile did not run, usually swam except in these ‘run’ days.) Those if us left behind reported to Duty section after Division left. When they were returning we all heard sirens and commotion. SM’s transported to 2nd Field Hospital in Bremerhaven. 30k up the road. I was informed of CG’s ‘hard core’ behaviors about a week after arrival in Post. Never really thought much about it because I didn’t have to run. Two Soldiers were hit by car on two separate occasions. Was considered ‘accidental death’ and no one ever really questioned. Also, Infantry BN’s were Mechanized while I was on same Post. Bradley’s were delivered ‘down south’. No one was trained on Bradley’s. 2/41 & 4/41 sent Senior NCO’s to Ft Hood for ‘training’. BN’s were bussed south. NCO’s returned to South Germany. The BN’s were briefed & ‘drove’ Bradley’s through Graff & Horns enroute to Garlstedt. Bradley’s’swim’ . MUST ‘seal’ prior to front tires touching water. Young , inexperienced crew, drowned. Don’t remember names and don’t really care to dwell. Just stating fact things DO happen and ‘accidents’ occur. I didn’t know these young soldiers. Just informed of ‘accidents’ because I was Support BN and MILOO processed records and paperwork. It was a very ‘strange’ Post in 1986. Berlin Wall still Up $ we were ‘First to Go’. Alerts were extremely ‘Stressful’. Actually packed up entire Post into Deuce & half’s and loaded records, and all MGT equipment into them and entire Division headed out of front gate. Had to place DESTROY ‘tags’ on everything left behind. Luckily nothing really happened, just ‘Readiness’ Drill. ‘Cold War’ was extremely ‘weird’ . Actually took MILPO to field once. Heavy rain and wind knocked down two GP Mediums. Thousands of $ in equipment destroyed along with boxes of 201 files. Never took Personnel records or equipment to field again. Strong ‘Rear Detachment’ established. 2nd Armored DIV (FWD) was ‘Hell on Wheels’! No one ever really discussed these events outside of the Division. SGM Erik Marquez
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SPC Nancy Greene
I am certain you are correct Sir. The entire time on this Post was somewhat ‘surreal’ . A female soldier stationed on a Combat Post in Germany in 1986-87 was definitely’strange’. I focused on my job and making sure Promotions were processed correctly and in ‘ the system’ prior to midnight the last day of month. MAJ Ken Landgren
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Josh,
I've witnessed similar situations albeit not at the same degree of severity. An acquaintance of mine, a CPT, was given a GOMOR for domestic violence and the HRC board convened to determine whether retain recommended retention. I know this officer to be of very poor quality.
Other than that, the treatment of officers seems to be akin of the way the Catholic Church has been alleged to deal with abusive priests - quietly sweep under the rug and relocate. I have also seen cases where officers have been dealt with, but I believe it's more often a result of animosity between the officer and his accuser. From my observations, the biggest factor in the disciplining of officers is whether or not they have a good buddy-buddy relationship with their superiors. Sycophantic violators are given much more deference than those that are not as ostentatious.
I've witnessed similar situations albeit not at the same degree of severity. An acquaintance of mine, a CPT, was given a GOMOR for domestic violence and the HRC board convened to determine whether retain recommended retention. I know this officer to be of very poor quality.
Other than that, the treatment of officers seems to be akin of the way the Catholic Church has been alleged to deal with abusive priests - quietly sweep under the rug and relocate. I have also seen cases where officers have been dealt with, but I believe it's more often a result of animosity between the officer and his accuser. From my observations, the biggest factor in the disciplining of officers is whether or not they have a good buddy-buddy relationship with their superiors. Sycophantic violators are given much more deference than those that are not as ostentatious.
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SPC Nancy Greene
What I experienced had Absolutely Nothing to do with DV!
This CG was Insane!
He placed Soldier at Risk once a month! His Division Run (fortunately I did not have to participate in due to P3 Profile from Basic) placed ALL Personnel in ‘Harms Way’!
How does any Soldier even begin to attempt ‘file charges GE’s’ against a General?!
This CG was Insane!
He placed Soldier at Risk once a month! His Division Run (fortunately I did not have to participate in due to P3 Profile from Basic) placed ALL Personnel in ‘Harms Way’!
How does any Soldier even begin to attempt ‘file charges GE’s’ against a General?!
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Reuters
The past three years seem to have been the hardest on army officers, as they have seen a steep, three-fold increase in departures due to misconduct and internal crimes, according to the documents. A total of 119 Army officers were forced to leave due to misconduct in 2010, which closely matched the average since 2000, but the figure more than tripled in 2013 to 387. For enlisted soldiers, the number jumped from 5,600 in 2007 to upward of 11,000 in 2013.
The past three years seem to have been the hardest on army officers, as they have seen a steep, three-fold increase in departures due to misconduct and internal crimes, according to the documents. A total of 119 Army officers were forced to leave due to misconduct in 2010, which closely matched the average since 2000, but the figure more than tripled in 2013 to 387. For enlisted soldiers, the number jumped from 5,600 in 2007 to upward of 11,000 in 2013.
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