Posted on Mar 8, 2015
SSG Parachute Rigger
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What is being taught at ROTC?

I mean seriously? how many of you would correct this?

Even using a subdued U.S. Flag.

I have never read the ROTC Program of Instruction (POI). I would like to think how to wear your uniform properly would be the first class.

Unless ROTC gets to combat these days. Craziness!

Enjoy!
Cadet
Posted in these groups: Leadership abstract 007 Leadership4276e14c Uniforms
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2LT Ibolc Student
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I feel a little awkward responding because I don't want to go out of my place here, but I'm currently an MSIII in an ROTC program, and I can attest that while schools do have different SOPs for uniform wear/etc, there are some standards that I believe are universal.

My school, for example, has the MSIVs wear our unit patch on their right shoulder and the ROTC on their left, basically to identify them as seniors. They all hate it, naturally, because they feel like they're wearing something in a place only a combat patch belongs, but it's SOP, and the reasoning does make sense. It's basically so that other cadets/cadre can differentiate them as MSIVs. To my knowledge, a lot of schools have cadets do that.

As per the ROTC patch on that shoulder, I haven't heard of any school doing that. My guess would be that she belongs to one of the schools that does the same thing with the unit patch on the right and the ROTC on the left, but mistakenly put them on backwards. It is definitely something that I, as a fellow cadet, would have brought to her attention, especially seeing how she is at a PX and, intentionally or not, representing ROTC as a whole badly.

As per the subdued flag, I can't explain that. To my knowledge, we do not have IR flags in supply (seeing as we really have no need for them). We are issued the full color ones, and I haven't seen anyone wearing subdued ones. My guess would be either they ran out of the proper type in supply and for some odd reason happened to have one of those in stock, or she somehow came across one of the subdued ones and thought it didn't make a difference. For the former, not really much you can do, for the latter it will definitely be addressed the next time she's on campus.

Honestly, I've seen cadets do some knuckle headed things (name-tapes on backwards, patch upside down) because they either weren't paying attention or didn't know any better, but these things are quickly corrected. If we receive word that one of our cadets was walking around doing something inappropriate in uniform, then it is addressed immediately at the next formation. But, then again, my ROTC has a few ex-DSGs and plenty of prior service folks, including a few NCOs, plus a pretty substantial veteran student community at the school itself, so it may just be that I'm lucky enough to attend a school where we have plenty of experience to draw on and people who will correct us if we look all jacked up!
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SSgt Michael Cox
SSgt Michael Cox
>1 y
Only things I noticed beyond what the Cadet Sargent stated is that she isn't wearing a cover outside and her right cargo pocket is unbuttoned. She probably took the water out of her cargo pocket but still sitting there it doesn't look good.
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SFC Don Ward
SFC Don Ward
>1 y
SSgt Michael Cox - Really?? Looks to me like she's under the overhang at the PX, no cover required.
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SGT William OBrien
SGT William OBrien
>1 y
SSgt Cox, I have been to a few PX/Bx locations where just outside under the overhang it says on the wall "not a cover area". This may be the case here?
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SSgt Michael Cox
SSgt Michael Cox
>1 y
Possibly I've never seen one of those signs but they could be new.
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CSM Michael J. Uhlig
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Not sure what's going on this picture but its great you make the on the spot correction, but please do not get fooled into thinking it's our ROTC cadets or our Reserve Components folks that the only ones jacked up.

We had a small team going on mission with OCP as the uniform. Three different flags on the right shoulder, three different. One was full color, one was subdued and one was a cloth variant of the subdued. I spoke with the Soldiers and they said all three flags were issued (they had went to the issue point at different times).....sometimes there's more to the story and we cant just run around screaming and yelling like a raging lunatic assuming we know what's going on.
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CPT Student
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The ROTC patch always goes on the left. If schools have a patch they wear them on their combat patch side.
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SSgt Bob Williams
SSgt Bob Williams
8 y
I remember when I graduated basic @ Lackland, the final week our uniforms were all sent down to a facility on base to get our ranks sewn on, our commander did an inspection the next day, our first with our ranks, and literally threw a fit, not a single one of us had them straight, and these were done by supply. Our Drill SGT. marched all of back down to the supply center, and the Capt. met us there, and he made them fix everyone of our uniforms. I was very proud that he had done that, because our uniforms would have looked like crap when we got to tech school.
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CPL Fire Support Specialist
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>1 y
We didn't get desert patches until at least 1/2 way through deployment, even then they didn't send enough for everyone, so we all just wore our regular unit patch.
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SPC UH-60 Helicopter Repairer
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And that ladies and gentlemen is why he is a Command Sergeant Major!
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COL Jean (John) F. B.
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Edited >1 y ago
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ROTC cadets and units are no different than active and RC units when it comes to individuals failing to follow uniform regulations or leaders failing to enforce them.

As far as the cadet in the picture, I assume she is wearing the uniform exactly how she has been instructed to by the chain of command. I also assume that she is probably under cover, therefore not wearing her headgear. I also assume she is probably at Advanced Camp, as she is obviously at the PX. Typically, ROTC cadets don't just run around military installations in uniform unless they are there for training.

I am not sure to what extent ROTC instructors teach the proper wearing of the uniform. I assume it is different at each school and depends on both the motivation and professionalism of the ROTC cadre and the amount of time allowed on the POI.

When I was an Army ROTC instructor at the University of Colorado, Colorado Springs, many years ago. I was astounded by what was not taught to cadets. The basic military subjects were pretty well covered (map reading and land navigation, military history, basic military tactics, leadership, etc.), but there was certainly a gap in what a new officer needed to know upon entering active duty and what was being taught. I discovered this by the questions that my cadets were asking my wife and me. Basic information about life in the military, pay and allowances, customs and courtesies, wear of the uniform, branches and assignments, etc., etc. simply were not covered by the POI.

As a result, I started teaching an optional course a couple of hours each week that cadets and their significant others could attend, if they wanted to. I opened it to all cadets (MS-I through MS-IV) and strongly recommended the MS-IV (seniors who would soon be commissioned) attend. The classes were held on campus, after hours. My wife always brought food and was present during certain topics to provide the military spouse perspective. I used the "Army Officers Guide" as the textbook for the course and initially paid for them myself (I later convinced the university to fund them for me, out of a supplemental budget they provided to us). Although we did not have 100% participation in the classes, it was damn close, especially among MS-III (junior) and MS-IV (senior) cadets. I also provided one-on-one instruction/discussion for cadets who could not make the classes due to work or other conflicts or who just wanted more information. My wife was very involved with the spouses/significant others of the cadets and actually had coffees and other social activities to show how to do them.

I am convinced that such a course is essential to expose future officer to what I assume the Army thought they should get by osmosis or something. I tried to get Cadet Command (not what it was called back then) to adopt it as part of the POI, but was not successful. They recognized the utility of having it, but stopped short of adopting it, instead, advising other schools across the command about my initiative and recommending they consider doing the same.
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PVT Corey Shelman
PVT Corey Shelman
>1 y
We have had ROTC cadets attached to our unit as an observer to see how things are ran within a unit. They usually followed the Unit Lt or a Platoon Lt on a week by week case to see how the different platoons operated
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COL Jean (John) F. B.
COL Jean (John) F. B.
>1 y
PVT Corey Shelman - There is (or, at least, was) a program called Cadet Troop Leadership Training (CTLT), where ROTC cadets were assigned to active units following the ROTC Advanced Camp. Also, there was a Simultaneous Membership Program (SMP), where ROTC cadets could be assigned to National Guard and USAR units to serve as platoon leaders/assistant platoon leaders. In addition, some ROTC units had agreements with active and USAR/ARNG units to allow cadets to be observers (tag along with junior officers in the unit) on an unofficial basis. All are good ways to get cadets a feel for what an Army officer actually does, before getting commissioned.
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SPC(P) Warren Soriano
SPC(P) Warren Soriano
>1 y
PVT Corey Shelman - We would refer to ours as a 3rd Lieutenant (3LT). He wasn't there for very long, never interacted w/ the enlisted. Just stuck w/ the PL. To be fair, we didn't know how to interact w/ him either. He never ordered us around, so we didn't dislike him... ;)
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COL Jean (John) F. B.
COL Jean (John) F. B.
>1 y
SPC(P) Warren Soriano - They were typically referred to as "3rd Lieutenant" by not only the soldiers, but the chain of command as well, although that was officially "frowned on" by the ROTC HQ. I remember some guidance being published about that. They were supposed to be referred to as "Cadet". The fact is, however, that is what they were called by most and it did not offend any that I am aware of.
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