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USMC. SNCOs not following Marine Corps Orders.
There for a while we had chuck Friday's. In the order it says the white skivi shirt is optional. If the Marine Corps order says it's optional then why do 1stSgts and other SNCOs loose their minds and start yelling at everyone while they follow the order. Then you try to tell said SNCO that it is authorized and then they tell you they don't care what the order says. I'm pretty sure as an NCO and SNCO it is our job to enforce the orders, not to change them to what we want them to be. I know many Marines who have gotten out because of "leaders" like this.
There for a while we had chuck Friday's. In the order it says the white skivi shirt is optional. If the Marine Corps order says it's optional then why do 1stSgts and other SNCOs loose their minds and start yelling at everyone while they follow the order. Then you try to tell said SNCO that it is authorized and then they tell you they don't care what the order says. I'm pretty sure as an NCO and SNCO it is our job to enforce the orders, not to change them to what we want them to be. I know many Marines who have gotten out because of "leaders" like this.
Posted in these groups: 2nd MARDIV1st MARDIV
Sgt
Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF) - Afghanistan
0341: Mortarman
Sgt Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF) - Afghanistan 0341: Mortarman
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 10
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Last time I checked, the Commander can make the order more restrictive for uniformity or mission.
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Sgt (Join to see)
1stSgt, yes the commander can make the regulation more strict. If the commander wishes to there has to be a policy letter stating so. If a Marine asks for the policy letter and no one can provide one then the Marine Corps Order is all there is to go off of.
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Maj John Bell
Sgt (Join to see) - What regulation, chapter and verse requires a written policy order? Policy letters are a tool intended to communicate more complex command policies and to communicate the commanders intent if there is some portion of the policy that is open to interpretation.
Their existence does not mandate their use in communicating a legal order. The Marines of 2nd Battalion 4th Marines will wear white crew neck t-shirts when wearing Summer Class "C" uniforms, unless otherwise directed, is not a complex order, nor is it open to interpretation.
Within your understanding of the need for policy letters, when can an Officer, SNCO, or NCO issue a verbal order and have it stand if it is not already direction provided by a MCO, DivO, RegtO, or BnO? How many written orders have you issued as a Sgt? What are you going to do when some sea lawyer tells you to put it in writing?
Their existence does not mandate their use in communicating a legal order. The Marines of 2nd Battalion 4th Marines will wear white crew neck t-shirts when wearing Summer Class "C" uniforms, unless otherwise directed, is not a complex order, nor is it open to interpretation.
Within your understanding of the need for policy letters, when can an Officer, SNCO, or NCO issue a verbal order and have it stand if it is not already direction provided by a MCO, DivO, RegtO, or BnO? How many written orders have you issued as a Sgt? What are you going to do when some sea lawyer tells you to put it in writing?
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MSgt (Join to see)
A commander has the ability to make regulations more strict through verbal commands or suggestions. IF your 1st Sgt says to not wear it, don't wear it. If your SGM says don't wear it, DONT WEAR IT.
In order for the more strict regulation to stick, the commander can either create the written instruction or use his Sr. Leaders to influence change within the Unit. Eventually, it will be an option that no one will choose.
In order for the more strict regulation to stick, the commander can either create the written instruction or use his Sr. Leaders to influence change within the Unit. Eventually, it will be an option that no one will choose.
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1stSgt (Join to see)
Everyone beat me to the punch. Maj John Bell hit the sea lawyer part and MSgt (Join to see) nailed the common sense part.
Sgt (Join to see) , Not sure where you got your info in policy letters, but you may not want to back to that source, ever. They mislead you. Optional is always at the discretion of those in charge. Despite some ideas that uniformity is not necessary, my experience has shown me that if you make an exception for one, ten more will come out of the woodwork screaming "precedent" and when you give a Marine an inch they will take a mile and then get butt hurt when crushed for it.
Just my thoughts. Semper Gumby
Sgt (Join to see) , Not sure where you got your info in policy letters, but you may not want to back to that source, ever. They mislead you. Optional is always at the discretion of those in charge. Despite some ideas that uniformity is not necessary, my experience has shown me that if you make an exception for one, ten more will come out of the woodwork screaming "precedent" and when you give a Marine an inch they will take a mile and then get butt hurt when crushed for it.
Just my thoughts. Semper Gumby
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This is the excerpt from ALMAR 059/01:
(12) MAINTAIN CURRENT REGULATIONS ALLOWING THE OPTIONAL
WEAR OF THE WHITE V-NECK, CREW-NECK OR NO UNDERSHIRT WITH
THE MALE SERVICE "C" AND BLUE DRESS "D" UNIFORMS UNLESS
SPECIFIED BY THE COMMANDING OFFICER, PER MCO P1020.34F.
Not a good battle for you to fight. No margin for winning and big downside for pissing off your immediate chain of command. A Commander does not have to "issue a Policy letter" for mundane stuff like this. Yes, it says "Optional" but in reality, unless you are on your own game plan (like the SgtMaj of MC or the CMC) then it's really means WEAR THE T-SHIRT.
(12) MAINTAIN CURRENT REGULATIONS ALLOWING THE OPTIONAL
WEAR OF THE WHITE V-NECK, CREW-NECK OR NO UNDERSHIRT WITH
THE MALE SERVICE "C" AND BLUE DRESS "D" UNIFORMS UNLESS
SPECIFIED BY THE COMMANDING OFFICER, PER MCO P1020.34F.
Not a good battle for you to fight. No margin for winning and big downside for pissing off your immediate chain of command. A Commander does not have to "issue a Policy letter" for mundane stuff like this. Yes, it says "Optional" but in reality, unless you are on your own game plan (like the SgtMaj of MC or the CMC) then it's really means WEAR THE T-SHIRT.
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Sgt (Join to see)
Thank you MGySgt, I was under the impression that there needed to be a policy letter. I appreciate your time for the clarification.
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Sgt (Join to see) Pick your fights! does it really matter? When you promote, do not have squirrelly ideas, SURVIVE!
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LCpl Steve Smith
Truer words could not be said and in times of the "Downsizing" those are words to live by.
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