Posted on May 13, 2016
West Point Gives Decision on Cadets' BLM-Supporting 'Raised Fist' Photo: Did It Violate Army...
2.12K
10
13
2
2
0
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 9
The decision released to the public was purely political. 16 future leaders got away with unbecoming conduct so that West Point didn't get strong armed by special interest. The LTCs letter proves that. One release by PR to save face and then the actual letter from a leader containing the actual expectations and opinions of the army and the school. Their intention doesn't matter, as a white former "punk rocker" I know what the fist means even outside of the black panther/BLM movement. Doesn't matter, you don't do ANY of it in uniform. You are sterile, voiceless, compliant, honorable, you don't take chances, you don't walk lines, that's how people die. This entire charade is exactly what's wrong with the Army and why I left.
(3)
(0)
All things considered, I absolutely agree with the decision. For me, this was not a story at "face value." I wonder how many folks looked into how the story got started in the first place - by John Burk, ex 11B D.I. You have to go well beyond the story in the Army Times. When you Read his posts on Facebook and several other blogger sites, and you watch a handful of the dozens of videos he posts, he leaves no doubt in your mind that he has a score to settle with the Army, that appears to have started with him "getting in trouble for speaking his mind" and then deciding to leave the Army because he got passed over for promotion to E7. Decide for yourself. A testimonial to his vigilante tactics is him encouraging acting duty soldiers to send him stories and photos of instances when the chain of command to hold soldiers accountable, especially superiors. For a sample, Google CSM Flournoy, 8th MP Bde, HI. The way he interfered there and at West Point is nothing less than undermining the leadership's chain of command and promotes insubordination. My opinion, he could just as easily referred the story to West Point's command.
(1)
(0)
COL (Join to see)
I'm a USMA '94 grad. Many of us (all races) held our hands up in victory either at the prospect of graduation or on that day. Pictures, no pictures, didn't matter. 22 years later it remains the toughest thing Ive ever done.
Generally speaking there are about a hundred cadets in each company and just over 4000 cadets at the school. Most of the time, there were about about 2 or 3 black cadets in each year group of the company or 8 to 12 total per company if we were lucky. This is important to understand because that picture represented most if not all of the black women who are graduating this year. They were a team within a team.
That picture was unique because it represented a visually distinct minority group... in a size that you almost never see together at West Point. And large gatherings of minority groups still draw attention. It could be women, foreign cadets, the hockey team, or football team, etc.
Most often these kinds of pictures, which are common enough at West Point going back to the early days of photograph, occur as a Company photo or members of each year group within a Company. The same group photo which even the Superintentent admitted occurs regularly and in which he wrote that he also recently took part in becomes a national story when minority groups gather to do something which is a common event and yet an outsider takes it out of context and puts an outsider's political twist on the action.
If one argues that this action is not correct for a group of young minority women, then the same action should likely be unfit for any Company photo, or team photo, or photo with Senior officers, or even a group of mascots taking a picture (USMA has a million mascots)... and yet theses groups who routinely have their pictures taken do not create the same concern or outcry, because they aren't a collection of minority young women. Today, when these groups raise their fists- they are heralds of victory. Sadly, much of the problem is the state of America today and our imposition of our fears and concerns on one group or type that we simply don't have with another.
It is true that laying the foundation for success requires everyone to assess their environment and understand which actions will be favorably received and which ones will not. This is situational awareness- which in the worst case can get you killed in combat if you let your guard down. These women did indeed let their guard down to the fact that they are not like everyone else and can't do what everyone else can do without national-level consequences. The superintendent is correct in his concerns that officers can not disregard perceptions. An understanding of perception and challenges united those women and forged the bond celebrated in the photo. These women now understand that the situational awareness can not be fleeting. They have earned the right to graduate, but they have not earned freedom from other's assumptions, freedom from being lumped into different groups even when doing the same thing as others who have gone before them or stand beside them, freedom from speculation when any diluted minority group gathers in such a visable fashion, and freedom from politics in America.
I have read the findings of the investigating officer and the Superintendent's letter. I'm proud that my Alma Mater was thorough and sensible in its findings. I am not proud of the possible the 2nd and 3rd order implications of conducting this investigation and the implications that we are not all 'green' if the trigger incident was based on assumptions about a group of minority women's conduct that was similar to majority or mixed communities at West Point from decades ago up to more recently (to include with the Suprrintendent himself).
West Point is already a tough place. Along with sending a discouraging message (or at best a mixed message) for any minority to attend the academy or live without being unfavorably profiled, but we've taken a little bit of the joy from these women who have conquered so much to get to graduation. And the Superintentent is rightfully holding his cadet officers to a higher standard based on their public profile, but in doing so reveals that at a minimum these minority women must have a higher standard than even the rest- in the finest tradition of Henry O. Flipper.
Generally speaking there are about a hundred cadets in each company and just over 4000 cadets at the school. Most of the time, there were about about 2 or 3 black cadets in each year group of the company or 8 to 12 total per company if we were lucky. This is important to understand because that picture represented most if not all of the black women who are graduating this year. They were a team within a team.
That picture was unique because it represented a visually distinct minority group... in a size that you almost never see together at West Point. And large gatherings of minority groups still draw attention. It could be women, foreign cadets, the hockey team, or football team, etc.
Most often these kinds of pictures, which are common enough at West Point going back to the early days of photograph, occur as a Company photo or members of each year group within a Company. The same group photo which even the Superintentent admitted occurs regularly and in which he wrote that he also recently took part in becomes a national story when minority groups gather to do something which is a common event and yet an outsider takes it out of context and puts an outsider's political twist on the action.
If one argues that this action is not correct for a group of young minority women, then the same action should likely be unfit for any Company photo, or team photo, or photo with Senior officers, or even a group of mascots taking a picture (USMA has a million mascots)... and yet theses groups who routinely have their pictures taken do not create the same concern or outcry, because they aren't a collection of minority young women. Today, when these groups raise their fists- they are heralds of victory. Sadly, much of the problem is the state of America today and our imposition of our fears and concerns on one group or type that we simply don't have with another.
It is true that laying the foundation for success requires everyone to assess their environment and understand which actions will be favorably received and which ones will not. This is situational awareness- which in the worst case can get you killed in combat if you let your guard down. These women did indeed let their guard down to the fact that they are not like everyone else and can't do what everyone else can do without national-level consequences. The superintendent is correct in his concerns that officers can not disregard perceptions. An understanding of perception and challenges united those women and forged the bond celebrated in the photo. These women now understand that the situational awareness can not be fleeting. They have earned the right to graduate, but they have not earned freedom from other's assumptions, freedom from being lumped into different groups even when doing the same thing as others who have gone before them or stand beside them, freedom from speculation when any diluted minority group gathers in such a visable fashion, and freedom from politics in America.
I have read the findings of the investigating officer and the Superintendent's letter. I'm proud that my Alma Mater was thorough and sensible in its findings. I am not proud of the possible the 2nd and 3rd order implications of conducting this investigation and the implications that we are not all 'green' if the trigger incident was based on assumptions about a group of minority women's conduct that was similar to majority or mixed communities at West Point from decades ago up to more recently (to include with the Suprrintendent himself).
West Point is already a tough place. Along with sending a discouraging message (or at best a mixed message) for any minority to attend the academy or live without being unfavorably profiled, but we've taken a little bit of the joy from these women who have conquered so much to get to graduation. And the Superintentent is rightfully holding his cadet officers to a higher standard based on their public profile, but in doing so reveals that at a minimum these minority women must have a higher standard than even the rest- in the finest tradition of Henry O. Flipper.
(0)
(0)
SSG Robert Webster
COL (Join to see) - Please provide evidence of any other group in the exact same setting as these cadets, from previous years exhibiting the exact same behavior. I will give you an example - any salute other than a "proper hand salute", rifle salute, or sword salute. Please note - the setting is the "Old Corps" style photo, NOT a sporting event, NOT graduation. The staging of a photo can make a big difference in interpretation, you should know this as well as anyone.
Next, do you honestly believe that today if a similar group of all white male cadets, did this exact same thing, in the exact same settings, that they would not have been treated the same in the end or that it would not have caused controversy? If you believe that it would not cause controversy, find a photo that meets the requirements that I have stated, give the provenance information for the photo, and post it on social media, let us see what kind of response that it would get. REMINDER - It has to be either an "Old Corps" photo or very similar - sporting event photos are NOT an option.
Next, do you honestly believe that today if a similar group of all white male cadets, did this exact same thing, in the exact same settings, that they would not have been treated the same in the end or that it would not have caused controversy? If you believe that it would not cause controversy, find a photo that meets the requirements that I have stated, give the provenance information for the photo, and post it on social media, let us see what kind of response that it would get. REMINDER - It has to be either an "Old Corps" photo or very similar - sporting event photos are NOT an option.
(0)
(0)
COL (Join to see)
I'm not a class historian, so I don't carry these photos around with me. I have seen them. One photo I can provide is attached. I believe it is at a rally. Remember, context is everything. These folks were graduating after achieving something special and so the context should be similar. I could agree with your instincts if this photo was taken on any common, random day of the year without the context of achievement or victory. There is much cause to celebrate when rooting on an ARMY team, or graduating, or beating NAVY. How do we commonly do it in the military? We cheer and lift our hands in victory. This has been universal. Undoubtedly, this symbol has also been tainted with political controversy for decades. We can apply our own inferences and assumptions to any photo without the benefit of background or knowledge. If the photo of West Point cadets below were taken in the 1960's would we assume that these officers were excited to become baby killers and puppets of the government or some other slander? Would that make it true? My point is that how individuals relate to a photo can sometimes say as much about the person looking at the photo as it does about those in the photo and what is actually happening.
Look, no one (including myself) is an authority on what was going on that day and I won't participate in a long devolving chain of letters on this topic. There was an Academy investigation and these women were found to not be making a political statement. But, I think that it is just possible that when you have a hammer in your hand everything looks like a nail. Today, there is a lot of national attention for or against BLM, and this is polarizing. Some people are looking to support it and other people are looking to stamp it out. The military is appropriately not political. But, that movement has chosen a symbol that is a universal one with broader meaning predating any of these modern movements. I think it is unfortunate that many people declared these women unfit simply because they have been roped into a national political narrative. These are individuals, not drones. They have diverse backgrounds and beliefs. Some are Democrats, some are Republicans. These women are from all across the US and represent the diversity of American beliefs and values. Yes, they are all black women, but that is only a fraction of what they are. What I believe is that is that this photo, representing something like all but two of the black women graduating from West Point this month, is filled with more Type A, professionalism, leadership, and diversity than simply a collection of people who are likely to be BLM supporters simply because they are black and have raised their fists. Frankly, I question the likelihood of uniting nearly the totally of that diverse group around BLM, let alone capturing it in a photo.
The profession of arms challenges each of us to engage in new and unique situations and make tough calls. It is true that the only lens that we have to evaluate situations is our own experience and what we've been exposed to over our lifetime. As a population, the armed forces is type-A. When in doubt, attack. I believe and value these things. But, when I'm observing Iraq and see a photo of two men walking down the street holding hands or see picture of a restaurant in Saudi Arabia with a family section and a men's section ---- I have an opportunity either apply my own experiences and values (or a current national narrative) to make my evaluation or reach deeper to understand the cultural significance of what is happening in that photo. As a Civil Affairs officer, I could not avoid appearing distant and ignorant if I apply my reality onto these groups. Our Army has had over a decade learning this lesson and yet we can still fall prey to these basic instincts. My point is that sometimes we fall prey to these basic instincts at home, too. Our Army isn't just in the blowing-up business, we have more work to do than that.
When we don't simply look at a photos, foreign countries, or cultures without considering them more deeply to consider what else might be going on- we make our path to peace around the world that much longer.
This is my final post / or reply on this issue. Regards.
Look, no one (including myself) is an authority on what was going on that day and I won't participate in a long devolving chain of letters on this topic. There was an Academy investigation and these women were found to not be making a political statement. But, I think that it is just possible that when you have a hammer in your hand everything looks like a nail. Today, there is a lot of national attention for or against BLM, and this is polarizing. Some people are looking to support it and other people are looking to stamp it out. The military is appropriately not political. But, that movement has chosen a symbol that is a universal one with broader meaning predating any of these modern movements. I think it is unfortunate that many people declared these women unfit simply because they have been roped into a national political narrative. These are individuals, not drones. They have diverse backgrounds and beliefs. Some are Democrats, some are Republicans. These women are from all across the US and represent the diversity of American beliefs and values. Yes, they are all black women, but that is only a fraction of what they are. What I believe is that is that this photo, representing something like all but two of the black women graduating from West Point this month, is filled with more Type A, professionalism, leadership, and diversity than simply a collection of people who are likely to be BLM supporters simply because they are black and have raised their fists. Frankly, I question the likelihood of uniting nearly the totally of that diverse group around BLM, let alone capturing it in a photo.
The profession of arms challenges each of us to engage in new and unique situations and make tough calls. It is true that the only lens that we have to evaluate situations is our own experience and what we've been exposed to over our lifetime. As a population, the armed forces is type-A. When in doubt, attack. I believe and value these things. But, when I'm observing Iraq and see a photo of two men walking down the street holding hands or see picture of a restaurant in Saudi Arabia with a family section and a men's section ---- I have an opportunity either apply my own experiences and values (or a current national narrative) to make my evaluation or reach deeper to understand the cultural significance of what is happening in that photo. As a Civil Affairs officer, I could not avoid appearing distant and ignorant if I apply my reality onto these groups. Our Army has had over a decade learning this lesson and yet we can still fall prey to these basic instincts. My point is that sometimes we fall prey to these basic instincts at home, too. Our Army isn't just in the blowing-up business, we have more work to do than that.
When we don't simply look at a photos, foreign countries, or cultures without considering them more deeply to consider what else might be going on- we make our path to peace around the world that much longer.
This is my final post / or reply on this issue. Regards.
(0)
(0)
I agree with it, as the decision was what I had advocated for in other posts and threads on this topic.
(1)
(0)
Read This Next