Posted on Oct 2, 2017
Please Rise for Our National Anthem — if You’re Not Too Busy
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This article (yea, I know, The New York Times?! What liberal trash!) drives home a point. I’ve gone to high school football games and see the same thing. College basketball games? Same actions.
This is just like religion. Have you ever seen visitors at a Catholic Mass, or Episcopal or Lutheran service, that are not members of that particular faith not standing (or kneeling) at the points where everyone else is doing so?
There are acts of so-called disrespect all over. This is nothing new. There’s a lack of social etiquette and common courtesy every where.
This is just like religion. Have you ever seen visitors at a Catholic Mass, or Episcopal or Lutheran service, that are not members of that particular faith not standing (or kneeling) at the points where everyone else is doing so?
There are acts of so-called disrespect all over. This is nothing new. There’s a lack of social etiquette and common courtesy every where.
Please Rise for Our National Anthem — if You’re Not Too Busy
Posted from mobile.nytimes.comPosted in these groups: 
Office of the President (POTUS)
American Flag
Office of the President (POTUS) American Flag
Posted 7 y ago
Responses: 8
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As a citizen in the stands you have the right to protest and not stand (or just be lazy) for the anthem as an individual. The NFL has a policy on standing for the anthem, in writing, like many companies have about a variety of items. If you knowingly and willfully break the a policy, normally there are consequences. The NFL is trying to act as though their policy is unenforceable and should be ignored if the player wants to do so.
Comparing what NFL players are doing to people in the stands at high school games or Church pews is a non sequitur. If you are not a member of a particular church, for example, there are portions they will ask visitors not to partake in. Communion is one possible example of that. Others may be new and unfamiliar with the practices etc.
Comparing what NFL players are doing to people in the stands at high school games or Church pews is a non sequitur. If you are not a member of a particular church, for example, there are portions they will ask visitors not to partake in. Communion is one possible example of that. Others may be new and unfamiliar with the practices etc.
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SFC Kelly Fuerhoff
http://www.snopes.com/must-nfl-players-stand/
WHAT'S TRUE
The NFL's rulebook says nothing about player conduct during the pre-game playing of the U.S. national anthem.
WHAT'S FALSE
The NFL's game operations manual may contain a policy stating that players must be present on the sidelines during the national anthem, but not that they must stand.
Key word "may."
"However, some sources have confusingly stated that the NFL has a separate game operations manual distributed to all the teams, and it is that document, not the rulebook, which supposedly includes the wording in question regarding player conduct during the national anthem:"
"We have not yet been able to independently confirm the existence and wording of this second document (the NFL has not responded to our query), but the proffered wording — which league spokesman Brian McCarthy described as a “policy” rather than a “rule” — states that players must “be” on the sideline for the national anthem, not that they must “stand” on the sideline (the latter is listed only as something players “should” do). The wording also establishes that players “may” (not “shall”) be penalized for not observing the regulation, and indeed the NFL announced that they would not take any disciplinary measures over players’ remaining in the locker room before Week 3 games:"
Odd that if there was a rule in the NFL why would the President say this: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2017/09/26/donald-trump-wants-nfl-create-rule-mandating-players-stand-national-anthem/703318001/
The NFL has no rule about standing on the field and conduct during the anthem. The NBA does about being on the court.
WHAT'S TRUE
The NFL's rulebook says nothing about player conduct during the pre-game playing of the U.S. national anthem.
WHAT'S FALSE
The NFL's game operations manual may contain a policy stating that players must be present on the sidelines during the national anthem, but not that they must stand.
Key word "may."
"However, some sources have confusingly stated that the NFL has a separate game operations manual distributed to all the teams, and it is that document, not the rulebook, which supposedly includes the wording in question regarding player conduct during the national anthem:"
"We have not yet been able to independently confirm the existence and wording of this second document (the NFL has not responded to our query), but the proffered wording — which league spokesman Brian McCarthy described as a “policy” rather than a “rule” — states that players must “be” on the sideline for the national anthem, not that they must “stand” on the sideline (the latter is listed only as something players “should” do). The wording also establishes that players “may” (not “shall”) be penalized for not observing the regulation, and indeed the NFL announced that they would not take any disciplinary measures over players’ remaining in the locker room before Week 3 games:"
Odd that if there was a rule in the NFL why would the President say this: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2017/09/26/donald-trump-wants-nfl-create-rule-mandating-players-stand-national-anthem/703318001/
The NFL has no rule about standing on the field and conduct during the anthem. The NBA does about being on the court.
FACT CHECK: Are NFL Players Required to Stand on the Field During the National Anthem?
Confusing claims about whether the NFL's rulebook or game operations manual specifically requires players to stand on the sideline during the pre-game playing of the U.S. national anthem.
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SFC (Join to see)
Cpl Jeff N. - Incorrect. I'm not confused, I am fully aware of the separation between the two. I stated it clearly.
As SFC Kelly Fuerhoff pointed out, the NFL policy cannot be directly sourced. However, assuming it did exist in the make-believe form we are both referencing (the post is already written) The pretend-NFL policy on Anthem Etiquette is worded from the U.S.C. I personally don't care about their policy, I haven't watched sports in over 10 years (except for random Youtube clips). The NFL could go bankrupt tomorrow for all I care.
Many military Service Members and Veterans have stated being upset about disrespect and ungratefulness shown by the players, in kneeling during the National Anthem and with the Flag present. They've stated being upset about tests of patriotism being violated, the Nation being disrespected, and their service and sacrifice being disrespected and unappreciated. YOU may have concern with the NFL policy of not fining the players, but of all the reading I've done, that seems to be a fairly minority complaint, or at least very new. Maybe its one of the shifting targets that happen once the initial arguments start to fall through on the Liberal and Conservative sides.
Anyway, back to the policy wording:
Anything that says SHOULD, is a suggestion or advice, and if punishment is attempted in a contractual sense, I'd imagine any Employee has easy grounds to defend themselves. There is a difference between SHOULD and MUST. The NFL clearly displays they know that, and they can't do anything about it; just like the U.S.C on the topic can't be enforced either (albeit for different reasons). The only two things in that paragraph of the NFL policy that MAY be enforced if failed, is if someone fails to coordinate the playing of the National Anthem, and if the teams aren't on the sideline during the National Anthem. Everything after that is purely optional. So in that case, sure, they can make the choice to penalize the teams for not coming out of the locker room. Or they could also penalize A/V crew for not booking a Vocalist for the National Anthem. (off-topic: My Mother sang the National Anthem for the San Diego Chargers/Padres for a few years while serving in the Navy in the late 90's)
Even in military regulations there are lots of SHOULD, MAY, WILL, MUST, etc. Some choose to interpret the SHOULD and MAY as mandatory, when it is convenient for scrutinizing others. I choose to see them as suggestion/situational, to protect Soldiers and Citizens from undue scrutiny in a place where people only cherry pick the laws/rules to suit their needs of punishing others.
As SFC Kelly Fuerhoff pointed out, the NFL policy cannot be directly sourced. However, assuming it did exist in the make-believe form we are both referencing (the post is already written) The pretend-NFL policy on Anthem Etiquette is worded from the U.S.C. I personally don't care about their policy, I haven't watched sports in over 10 years (except for random Youtube clips). The NFL could go bankrupt tomorrow for all I care.
Many military Service Members and Veterans have stated being upset about disrespect and ungratefulness shown by the players, in kneeling during the National Anthem and with the Flag present. They've stated being upset about tests of patriotism being violated, the Nation being disrespected, and their service and sacrifice being disrespected and unappreciated. YOU may have concern with the NFL policy of not fining the players, but of all the reading I've done, that seems to be a fairly minority complaint, or at least very new. Maybe its one of the shifting targets that happen once the initial arguments start to fall through on the Liberal and Conservative sides.
Anyway, back to the policy wording:
Anything that says SHOULD, is a suggestion or advice, and if punishment is attempted in a contractual sense, I'd imagine any Employee has easy grounds to defend themselves. There is a difference between SHOULD and MUST. The NFL clearly displays they know that, and they can't do anything about it; just like the U.S.C on the topic can't be enforced either (albeit for different reasons). The only two things in that paragraph of the NFL policy that MAY be enforced if failed, is if someone fails to coordinate the playing of the National Anthem, and if the teams aren't on the sideline during the National Anthem. Everything after that is purely optional. So in that case, sure, they can make the choice to penalize the teams for not coming out of the locker room. Or they could also penalize A/V crew for not booking a Vocalist for the National Anthem. (off-topic: My Mother sang the National Anthem for the San Diego Chargers/Padres for a few years while serving in the Navy in the late 90's)
Even in military regulations there are lots of SHOULD, MAY, WILL, MUST, etc. Some choose to interpret the SHOULD and MAY as mandatory, when it is convenient for scrutinizing others. I choose to see them as suggestion/situational, to protect Soldiers and Citizens from undue scrutiny in a place where people only cherry pick the laws/rules to suit their needs of punishing others.
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SFC (Join to see)
SFC Kelly Fuerhoff - The sad part is, I checked all of that earlier as well. It's clearly too late in the day for me, I need to sleep. Thanks for catching that and calling me out.
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Agreed.
In many cases, it's also an issue of the No True Scotsman fallacy, in regards to who passes the arbitrary "test of patriotism" and who doesn't. Does the fact they stood for many Flags and Anthems in the past hold any weight? How far will the tests go as time passes? The article also makes a great point pertaining to the particular portions of the rules that some choose to cherry pick, and what they then choose to ignore.
Heck, we see it WAY too often in the military as well. How often have we seen Service Members running to their car, or inside buildings trying to beat Reveille/Retreat, then when the the Colors are being Hoisted/Lowered, instead of coming to Attention, About Face, and Saluting; they just get in their car and drive off or continue the additional walk into the building. Or how about the crowd of Service Members that will huddle in the doorway at 1658, waiting for Retreat to start and finish, so they don't have to Salute; then as soon as its done, they walk out.
As usual, we only care when its convenient (Harambe), or when we've been gamed by the very slick Psy Op campaign that continues to be waged against the U.S. Population.
In many cases, it's also an issue of the No True Scotsman fallacy, in regards to who passes the arbitrary "test of patriotism" and who doesn't. Does the fact they stood for many Flags and Anthems in the past hold any weight? How far will the tests go as time passes? The article also makes a great point pertaining to the particular portions of the rules that some choose to cherry pick, and what they then choose to ignore.
Heck, we see it WAY too often in the military as well. How often have we seen Service Members running to their car, or inside buildings trying to beat Reveille/Retreat, then when the the Colors are being Hoisted/Lowered, instead of coming to Attention, About Face, and Saluting; they just get in their car and drive off or continue the additional walk into the building. Or how about the crowd of Service Members that will huddle in the doorway at 1658, waiting for Retreat to start and finish, so they don't have to Salute; then as soon as its done, they walk out.
As usual, we only care when its convenient (Harambe), or when we've been gamed by the very slick Psy Op campaign that continues to be waged against the U.S. Population.
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I do not agree with the protesting, but I defend the right to do so, period. That should be the end of the discussion on whether to stand or not. It is each individual's choice. Is that not what we all serve/served for? Protection of every individual's rights?
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LTC (Join to see)
I too defend their right to do so ... period. I also defend the right of their team coaches and owners to discipline them for it if they choose to do so, the NFL to discipline them for it if it chooses to do so, and me to criticize them for it ... which I do ... vehemently and without apology. #BoycottNFL #BoycottNFLSponsors
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1SG (Join to see)
LTC (Join to see) I'm not boycotting the NFL, but here is a list of their sponsors
Gatorade (PepsiCo) Isotonic beverage ’83
Visa Payment systems services ’95
Campbell’s Soup Soup ’98
FedEx Package delivery service ’00
Frito-Lay (PepsiCo) Salted snack/popcorn ’00
Mars Snackfood Chocolate ’02
Pepsi (PepsiCo) Soft drinks ’02
Dairy Mgmt. Inc. Dairy/milk/yogurt/cheese ’03
Bridgestone Tire ’07
Gillette Health/beauty ’09
Verizon Wireless phones ’10
Barclays Affinity card ’10
Papa John’s Pizza ’10
Castrol Motor oil ’10
Anheuser-Busch Beer ’11
USAA Insurance ’11
Bose Home theater system ’11
Courtyard by Marriot Hotel ’11
Xbox (Microsoft) Video game console ’11
Quaker Oats Hot cereal ’12
Tide/Duracell Household cleaning/battery’12
Lenovo Computers ’12
McDonald’s Restaurant ’12
SAP Cloud software solutions ’12
Surface/Windows Tablet/PC operating system’13
CoverGirl Beauty ’13
Zebra Technologies Player-tracking technology’14
TD Ameritrade Personal investing ’14
Extreme Networks WiFi analytics provider ’14
Nationwide Insurance Insurance ’14
Hyundai Auto ’15
Dannon Yogurt ’15
Gatorade (PepsiCo) Isotonic beverage ’83
Visa Payment systems services ’95
Campbell’s Soup Soup ’98
FedEx Package delivery service ’00
Frito-Lay (PepsiCo) Salted snack/popcorn ’00
Mars Snackfood Chocolate ’02
Pepsi (PepsiCo) Soft drinks ’02
Dairy Mgmt. Inc. Dairy/milk/yogurt/cheese ’03
Bridgestone Tire ’07
Gillette Health/beauty ’09
Verizon Wireless phones ’10
Barclays Affinity card ’10
Papa John’s Pizza ’10
Castrol Motor oil ’10
Anheuser-Busch Beer ’11
USAA Insurance ’11
Bose Home theater system ’11
Courtyard by Marriot Hotel ’11
Xbox (Microsoft) Video game console ’11
Quaker Oats Hot cereal ’12
Tide/Duracell Household cleaning/battery’12
Lenovo Computers ’12
McDonald’s Restaurant ’12
SAP Cloud software solutions ’12
Surface/Windows Tablet/PC operating system’13
CoverGirl Beauty ’13
Zebra Technologies Player-tracking technology’14
TD Ameritrade Personal investing ’14
Extreme Networks WiFi analytics provider ’14
Nationwide Insurance Insurance ’14
Hyundai Auto ’15
Dannon Yogurt ’15
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