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Ren's Rant
well, it's worth sharing. There was a time when political division consisted of vigorous debate, not the hatemongering that has become not only accepted but thriving since Obama was elected. Not that it didn't exist prior to Trump or Obama-it did. But, the vile I saw during Obama's first election is the REASON I left the Republican party. I was actually running for office that year, as a republican, working with other republican candidates. The vitriol and the authoritarianism portrayed was an immediate red flag to MY OWN SENSE OF BEING, MY OWN AUTONOMY, INDEPENDENCE AND SELF DETERMINATION. This movement, that began with the Tea Party infiltration, but which has been in motion for decades prior, is a direct assault on MY RIGHTS- and it doesn't matter that I wore the uniform. As veterans, it is our duty, my duty, to protect America from the authoritarians inside it in any way I can. And I will continue to push back against the hatemongering that has become so accepted-the hatred against anyone who is different... those who amplify the "us vs them" idea- I'd rather have a CIC who may make mistakes but who cares deeply about all of humanity than a horrid criminal who is thriving off the writings and ideas of HItler, Putin, and other dictators.
well, it's worth sharing. There was a time when political division consisted of vigorous debate, not the hatemongering that has become not only accepted but thriving since Obama was elected. Not that it didn't exist prior to Trump or Obama-it did. But, the vile I saw during Obama's first election is the REASON I left the Republican party. I was actually running for office that year, as a republican, working with other republican candidates. The vitriol and the authoritarianism portrayed was an immediate red flag to MY OWN SENSE OF BEING, MY OWN AUTONOMY, INDEPENDENCE AND SELF DETERMINATION. This movement, that began with the Tea Party infiltration, but which has been in motion for decades prior, is a direct assault on MY RIGHTS- and it doesn't matter that I wore the uniform. As veterans, it is our duty, my duty, to protect America from the authoritarians inside it in any way I can. And I will continue to push back against the hatemongering that has become so accepted-the hatred against anyone who is different... those who amplify the "us vs them" idea- I'd rather have a CIC who may make mistakes but who cares deeply about all of humanity than a horrid criminal who is thriving off the writings and ideas of HItler, Putin, and other dictators.
Overcoming Extreme Division Starts With Us
Posted from startswith.usPosted in these groups: 
Political Opinions
Political Opinions
Posted 4 d ago
Responses: 4
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SP5 Renee Reif Well said . . .
Seems that all the hate and divisiveness that has replaced civility, started out as an ill-intended effort to make as many people feel as negative as possible.
What seemed narcissistic and bizarre, scapegoating, gaslighting, dishonest (the list goes on) at first, now seems as if it has escalated to actual Dark Tedrad proportions throughout our nation. It is no wonder increasingly more more nations mistrust ours and what looks, feels, and behaves like abuse of our nation's power.
Seems that all the hate and divisiveness that has replaced civility, started out as an ill-intended effort to make as many people feel as negative as possible.
What seemed narcissistic and bizarre, scapegoating, gaslighting, dishonest (the list goes on) at first, now seems as if it has escalated to actual Dark Tedrad proportions throughout our nation. It is no wonder increasingly more more nations mistrust ours and what looks, feels, and behaves like abuse of our nation's power.
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Forgive me as I don't find this to be as altruistic as you try to make it. I can understand one removing themselves from a party based on their actions, but that doesn't necessarily equate to abandoning the principles they claim to have. I myself discontinued my financial support to the GOP almost 2 decades ago for their inability to make changes when they had the perfect opportunities to do so. Regardless and to be clear, for every percieved wrong the GOP may have done, anyone can find equally wrong doing by the opposing Democrat party members as well. So where does that leave us? Well, for me, I continue to read and understand what's going on around me, and I take note of individual actions, not the party's actions. The Tea Party was hardly an iffiltration of the GOP, but rather a significant grass roots group of people that had basically two desires in their charter; 1. To have our leaders adhere to the Constitution as it is written and 2. To maintain a balance budget and pay down the enormous debt this country has. Neither of these two goals are evil or malicious in principle, but they do go against what I percieve from those who align farther to the left, to change the Constitution significantly and to continue thowing money at issues in hope to buy votes (regardless of whether this nation can afford it). The Democrat party saw fit to demonize this movement through a misinformation campaign, knowing that if it were to grow in popularity, it would hurt them. Several GOP members enabled that campaign, or became indifferent as it threatend their own power. So, all the ugliness you think you see coming from the GOP isn't something they own independently, it is a trait found in many politicians on any side and even from those who claim not to have a side. Where does that leave us? I am personally driven to observe the individuals, not the party they align to. Time and time again I see people quote articles of a politican doing something wrong, bad or evil, and then go on to claim this is reflective of all members of that party. It's ridiculous. In addition to what I observe in individuals, I also have my own principles and perspective on how best to lead and improve this nation. For me, most align to conservative principles and while there a plenty of politicians that will claim they intend to champion those principles, I have to look to their actions, not words. Democrat or Republican (or any other party for that matter) has the exect same challenges with the so-called party leaders they align to.
You spoke of how you thought Obama was treated unfairly and that this was what led you away from the GOP. Ok, so does that mean you no longer align to conservative principles? Did you ever? I found many of the issues associated with Obama both legitimate and in some cases unsubstantiated and unproductive. But to think we was treated unfairly compared to any other President is highly short sighted. I'm observed things progressively get worse and worse from the Bush family (whom I deeply respected) to Trump (who I don't care for very mush as a person). I challenge you to actually transpose the name Trump and insert the name Obama and ask yourself if this rhetoric and these attacks would be considered acceptable. For all his faults, Trump is not trying to establish authoritariasm. Nor was the Tea Party. You talk about hate and yet the single largest amount of hate occurring in this election is being directed at Trump. He has two assassination attempts to prove this and little to no effort on his opponent's surrogates to tone down the unprecedented atttacks and rhetoric. You speak of us vs them and what you should bear in mind, is that this isn't necessarily about Trump to me, but where this country is going when attacks against GOP congress members, SCOTUS Justices, and GOP Presidents are largly ignored. It's not so much that it is the GOP getting targeted here, but the fact that nothing changes in the rhetoric directed at them and how we are normalizing these actions. To put it plainly, the true "us vs them" that I am observing is coming mostly from the left. To be a champion against hate-mongering as you put it, you need to be consistent and call for it to stop on all sides. Right now we have a Presidential candidate who has twice (and possibly more) come close to being killed as a result of hate. Should someone become successful in these attempts, I am truly concerned what will happen to this nation and the ensuing violence that will occur as a result.
You spoke of how you thought Obama was treated unfairly and that this was what led you away from the GOP. Ok, so does that mean you no longer align to conservative principles? Did you ever? I found many of the issues associated with Obama both legitimate and in some cases unsubstantiated and unproductive. But to think we was treated unfairly compared to any other President is highly short sighted. I'm observed things progressively get worse and worse from the Bush family (whom I deeply respected) to Trump (who I don't care for very mush as a person). I challenge you to actually transpose the name Trump and insert the name Obama and ask yourself if this rhetoric and these attacks would be considered acceptable. For all his faults, Trump is not trying to establish authoritariasm. Nor was the Tea Party. You talk about hate and yet the single largest amount of hate occurring in this election is being directed at Trump. He has two assassination attempts to prove this and little to no effort on his opponent's surrogates to tone down the unprecedented atttacks and rhetoric. You speak of us vs them and what you should bear in mind, is that this isn't necessarily about Trump to me, but where this country is going when attacks against GOP congress members, SCOTUS Justices, and GOP Presidents are largly ignored. It's not so much that it is the GOP getting targeted here, but the fact that nothing changes in the rhetoric directed at them and how we are normalizing these actions. To put it plainly, the true "us vs them" that I am observing is coming mostly from the left. To be a champion against hate-mongering as you put it, you need to be consistent and call for it to stop on all sides. Right now we have a Presidential candidate who has twice (and possibly more) come close to being killed as a result of hate. Should someone become successful in these attempts, I am truly concerned what will happen to this nation and the ensuing violence that will occur as a result.
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SP5 Renee Reif
racism and misogyny are NOT conservative values - and sure don't make me want to hang out with folks who would oppress me rather than treat me as a moral equal.
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SP5 Renee Reif
Trump's Racism Isn't Just Racism, It's a Strategy | Othering & Belonging Institute
UC Berkeley Professor Ian Haney López teamed up with MoveOn.org Civic Action, Demos Action, and Inequality Media, to demonstrate how Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump relies on racism as a strategy to divide the country for the benefi
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Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin
I am happy to have a civil discussion so long as it remains to be respectful and without the connotations of your perception that those that subscribe to conservative values are racist. For every example you produce of individuals commotting what you perceive to be racist acts from the Republican side, the same examples can be produced of the Democrats. To include examples of what is deemed as racist by Democrats standards against Republicans, committed by Democrats themselves (including the serving President). Racism has become the straw man arguement of the Democrat party levied against the Republicans. It is baseless, unproductive, and it weakens the meaning or racism at large. The GOP is not racist and nor do I think of the DNC as such (anymore). However, I will say the DNC has roots with racism racism and they now throw the word around for virtually any issue if they believe it will bring them favor for any given demographic they are trying to appeal to.
Now, listing a bunch of names of authors you deem as enlightened or more intellectual than those I choose to read and the actions I observe of people is pointless. What qualifies them to tell me how to think? Robert Draper as an example is a Biden apologist, a biased Trump critic, who does not suport Israel, and has no problem with a nuclear Iran. Forgive me as I don't count him as one of my top go to "journalists". Nor will I ever consider Rachel Maddow as a pioneer in journalism either after listening to her unbalaced and completely biased reporting, full of hypocracy and one sided perspectives I do not share.
Like it or not, Lincoln was a Republican and Republicans are proud to name him to the party. not only because of his nationalism view of keeping the Union together, but more importantly because of the steps he took to end slavery in this nation. In addition to having that strong sense of nationalism, he also had a strong reverence for the Constitution and American exceptionalism. All of which are traits that most conservatives value. Next you invoke Reagan, a man no Democrat truly will claim was a great president and which took on many of the same issues Trump is attempting to take on today. From economic strategies to taxes to addressing our border. While some of these issue have taken on additional paths, many of the objectives remain the same.
Finally, you stated the following "racism and misogyny are NOT conservative values - and sure don't make me want to hang out with folks who would oppress me rather than treat me as a moral equal." To that we agree and I do not find this with the Conservatives I know and/or respect. But again, these words are thrown out to label people and create straw man arguments when they have little to nothing else to use for their argurement. I can only hope you do not resort to the same tactic. Worst of all, they also create an environment in which people have to walk on egg shells around each other for the fear that if they same something offensive, that they too might get labeled. That is how oppression rears it's head, when those who seek to control thoughts and what people can or cannot say actually gain that control. What I don't think you see is that there are politicians, especially on the Democrat side, that have no interest in equality, but rather, their view of fairness, equality, and what they believe is truth (despite facts saying otherwise). The life lesson they fail to understand is that life isn't fair, and that we can only try to create equal opportunity for all. But it is up to the individual to use that opportunity to build themselves up. I'm sorry but what I see Democrats doing is simply throwing money at problems, regardless of whether those with those problems ignored the equal opportunities afforded to them and brought these problems on themselves.
Now, listing a bunch of names of authors you deem as enlightened or more intellectual than those I choose to read and the actions I observe of people is pointless. What qualifies them to tell me how to think? Robert Draper as an example is a Biden apologist, a biased Trump critic, who does not suport Israel, and has no problem with a nuclear Iran. Forgive me as I don't count him as one of my top go to "journalists". Nor will I ever consider Rachel Maddow as a pioneer in journalism either after listening to her unbalaced and completely biased reporting, full of hypocracy and one sided perspectives I do not share.
Like it or not, Lincoln was a Republican and Republicans are proud to name him to the party. not only because of his nationalism view of keeping the Union together, but more importantly because of the steps he took to end slavery in this nation. In addition to having that strong sense of nationalism, he also had a strong reverence for the Constitution and American exceptionalism. All of which are traits that most conservatives value. Next you invoke Reagan, a man no Democrat truly will claim was a great president and which took on many of the same issues Trump is attempting to take on today. From economic strategies to taxes to addressing our border. While some of these issue have taken on additional paths, many of the objectives remain the same.
Finally, you stated the following "racism and misogyny are NOT conservative values - and sure don't make me want to hang out with folks who would oppress me rather than treat me as a moral equal." To that we agree and I do not find this with the Conservatives I know and/or respect. But again, these words are thrown out to label people and create straw man arguments when they have little to nothing else to use for their argurement. I can only hope you do not resort to the same tactic. Worst of all, they also create an environment in which people have to walk on egg shells around each other for the fear that if they same something offensive, that they too might get labeled. That is how oppression rears it's head, when those who seek to control thoughts and what people can or cannot say actually gain that control. What I don't think you see is that there are politicians, especially on the Democrat side, that have no interest in equality, but rather, their view of fairness, equality, and what they believe is truth (despite facts saying otherwise). The life lesson they fail to understand is that life isn't fair, and that we can only try to create equal opportunity for all. But it is up to the individual to use that opportunity to build themselves up. I'm sorry but what I see Democrats doing is simply throwing money at problems, regardless of whether those with those problems ignored the equal opportunities afforded to them and brought these problems on themselves.
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