Posted on Oct 6, 2017
Lockheed Upbeat Despite F-35 Losing Dogfight To Red Baron
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Oldie, but still a goodie...hee hee
Lockheed Upbeat Despite F-35 Losing Dogfight To Red Baron
Posted from duffelblog.com
Humor
F-35
Posted 7 y ago
Responses: 10
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The last time someone decided dogfights were a thing of the past and the F4 Phantom came out with long range stand off missiles it was found that wasn't such a good idea. Enemy Migs fighters of North Viet Nam did get in close and had guns for dogfights and the missiles were great at long range but not close in. The Phantoms needed guns so they had to add a pod as shown above under the fuselage center line to offset that weapons shortage. After that lesson the A10"Thunderbolt II" better known as the Warthog had the aircraft built around the gun and also had a more survivable air frame that could take major battle damage and keep on flying. It seems the leadership still doesn't pay attention to History and get the point that this has been tried before and came up short. Long range standoff is fine to a point but the other guy is just as determined to make You the one to be shot down and not Him. Close in weapons such as guns are still needed and over and over again that has proven to be the case.
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
GySgt John Olson - First the F8 Crusader used in Viet Nam was an older aircraft than the F4 and became operational in 1955 and in Viet Nam the F8 had the highest kill ratio, 19 to 3 of any US fighter aircraft. It used 4 of the 20mm canons as it primary armament and missile were secondary, that worked. The F4 Phantom however was a 1960s vintage aircraft used by USAF, the Navy and Marines I said the missiles were not only the primary weapon but it had no guns until the pod was added to USAF versions of the F4, that is the point I refer to, not that other older aircraft didn't have guns, even the A1E Skyraider, a former Navy prop job flow by the USAF in Viet Nam with 6 50 calibers in the leading edge of the wings was but back into service, primarily for support of Helicopter rescue crews or some ground support. I'm well aware of what the A10 was used for and so are plenty of Infantry troops that have been supported by it. It took over what started with USAF flying the A1E as there wasn't a jet aircraft that could handle that type mission that well. I refer more to the type of thinking on not need guns by some leader on aircraft later in the Viet Nam war and it seems some forgetting why they were needed. My reference to the warthog was only to show the aircraft was designed around the gun NOT that it was used in aerial combat and I never said it was. If I made mentioning the two was confusing that wasn't any attempt to misrepresent history but point out the F35 is missing the point on being claimed as able to do what the F4, the F8 and other aircraft with guns could do and claims it could also do what the A10 did as well as a multi role aircraft. I don't feel that was a misrepresentation but it seems i had to explain further to make the point come across.
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In the nick of time, a hero arose
A funny-looking dog with a big black nose
He flew into the sky to seek revenge
But the Baron shot him down (Curses, foiled again!)
Ten, twenty, thirty, forty, fifty or more
The Bloody Red Baron was rolling out the score
Eighty men died trying to end that spree
Of the Bloody Red Baron of Germany
Now, Snoopy had sworn that he'd get that man
So he asked the Great Pumpkin for a new battle plan
He challenged the German to a real dogfight
While the Baron was laughing, he got him in his sight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtJ1Gnh9wPU
A funny-looking dog with a big black nose
He flew into the sky to seek revenge
But the Baron shot him down (Curses, foiled again!)
Ten, twenty, thirty, forty, fifty or more
The Bloody Red Baron was rolling out the score
Eighty men died trying to end that spree
Of the Bloody Red Baron of Germany
Now, Snoopy had sworn that he'd get that man
So he asked the Great Pumpkin for a new battle plan
He challenged the German to a real dogfight
While the Baron was laughing, he got him in his sight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtJ1Gnh9wPU
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