Posted on Apr 4, 2017
CSM: The Army wants to put drill sergeants back in AIT in 2019
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I still don't understand why they have to be "put back in". A Drill Sergeant should be involved in every step on the process, from getting them off the plane to putting them on the plane to their first duty assignment. The Drill Sergeant plays a critical role in the development of America's warfighter.
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https://www.rallypoint.com/positions/drill-sergeant/shared-links/army-needs-to-bring-drill-sergeants-back-to-ait?page=3&urlhash=1498145#1498145
Conversation has been going on for years.
Conversation has been going on for years.
Army needs to bring drill sergeants back to AIT | RallyPoint
Good idea or bad? Personally I feel that this move was long overdue; standards and discipline.
The comments made by the CSM Gragg were a bit weird: "How does an individual control a crowd of 120 if you are not vertically gifted and taller than everybody?"... "They can’t see you. There’s no self-discipline."... "If I put distinctive head gear on you, that sphere of influence is increased to 30 meters around you."
Is CSM Gragg really saying being "taller" and wearing a distinctive campaign hat like the "smokey brown" will automatically fix all their problems? The NCO's at my previous duty stations, regardless if they were in my company or not, were just as fierce as a DS/DI from BCT. They were able to motivate, discipline and educate you without distinctive items. I think we have a much bigger problem if AIT trainees can't respect the rank and follow orders. Especially if someone is trying to teach them how to do their job that could potentially save their life or someone else's.
the vertical height thing is just plain ridiculous, so how tall does a DS need to be? Over 6 ft tall?
Is CSM Gragg really saying being "taller" and wearing a distinctive campaign hat like the "smokey brown" will automatically fix all their problems? The NCO's at my previous duty stations, regardless if they were in my company or not, were just as fierce as a DS/DI from BCT. They were able to motivate, discipline and educate you without distinctive items. I think we have a much bigger problem if AIT trainees can't respect the rank and follow orders. Especially if someone is trying to teach them how to do their job that could potentially save their life or someone else's.
the vertical height thing is just plain ridiculous, so how tall does a DS need to be? Over 6 ft tall?
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MSG (Join to see)
After having spent time in Reclass/Prior Service status when I was switching to my current MOS, and even when I was going thru NOCES down at FT Sam, I certainly noticed a certain lack of discipline among the IETs. It is of my opinion, that.....besides the lack of Drill Sergeants....was that TRADOC created a Hands Are Tied environment to the underlying commands and training units. Can only drop them for 10 push ups, etc. One time when reclassing, I was coming back from Sick Call, and I reported into my Cadre office to sign in for POI and to report that I'm back from Sick Call. One of the IETs in my class, he was in the office area for something I don't know what, but the NCOIC of our MOS training, a SFC, had said something I don't remember. But the IET (a PFC) chimed in, "I don't appreciate the tone of your voice, SGT." I IMMEDIATELY backed up 5 steps, as I didn't want to get caught in the line of fire. The SFC said "Don't worry Livingston. I got this." I proceeded to watch her drop him for 10 push ups then told him to report to class. That. Was. It.
And even as an NCO going thru ALC, we were instructed that....even as NCOs....if we observed an IET commit any kind of infraction, we cannot correct on the spot. The only engagement we could have with that IET (and we were told we BETTER have an Battle with us), was to ask who their AIT Platoon Sergeant was, and then report the infraction. When the IETs know they have more power than the NCOs, and any kind of report of abuse......false or otherwise....would kill the career of that NCO.
And even as an NCO going thru ALC, we were instructed that....even as NCOs....if we observed an IET commit any kind of infraction, we cannot correct on the spot. The only engagement we could have with that IET (and we were told we BETTER have an Battle with us), was to ask who their AIT Platoon Sergeant was, and then report the infraction. When the IETs know they have more power than the NCOs, and any kind of report of abuse......false or otherwise....would kill the career of that NCO.
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SPC (Join to see)
Thanks for the reply SSG Livingstong.
It begs the question what effect will reinserting a DS have if their capabilities are limited. It's also bizarre how new recruits are so fascinated with combat FPS video games, movies, books, and exhibits but still want to be treated like a civilian.
It begs the question what effect will reinserting a DS have if their capabilities are limited. It's also bizarre how new recruits are so fascinated with combat FPS video games, movies, books, and exhibits but still want to be treated like a civilian.
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SFC (Join to see)
Shawn,
CSM Gragg was mostly commenting about how the Drill Sergeants hat adds vertical height which increases the physical presence of the Drill and reduces the willingness of young soldiers to turn a face down into a physical battle. I learned in the Drill sergeants course that the hat and the uniform are tools to make the Drill Sergeants job easier. The tilt of the hat hides the eyes so a soldier that tries to challenge a Drill is doubtful and that indecisiveness leads to him backing down. Discipline is doing the right thing even when no one is watching but until the young soldier develops it, being able to identify another soldier as a Drill Sergeant from 100 yards away instills the desire to avoid being caught doing the wrong thing. Not having to spend all our time correcting troops lets us spend our time teaching skills for survival and eventually the discipline light gets turned on(hopefully "
The hat doesn't make the Drill Sergeant, it only helps him. It takes a lot of energy and planning to be an effective Drill Sergeant. Many of the big blow ups and "wow" events that you remember about your Drill 10 years later were most likely carefully planned. We can't keep that level going 24/7 but when the soldier identifies the level of control as being present with the hat...the Drill Sergeant doesn't have to keep that energy level up or he can direct it to another that needs it. Another tool that Drill Sergeants used when we still shined boots and pressed uniforms was wearing multiple sets each day. It added to the "wow" factor that the Drill Sergeant always had perfect uniform and boots.
CSM Gragg was mostly commenting about how the Drill Sergeants hat adds vertical height which increases the physical presence of the Drill and reduces the willingness of young soldiers to turn a face down into a physical battle. I learned in the Drill sergeants course that the hat and the uniform are tools to make the Drill Sergeants job easier. The tilt of the hat hides the eyes so a soldier that tries to challenge a Drill is doubtful and that indecisiveness leads to him backing down. Discipline is doing the right thing even when no one is watching but until the young soldier develops it, being able to identify another soldier as a Drill Sergeant from 100 yards away instills the desire to avoid being caught doing the wrong thing. Not having to spend all our time correcting troops lets us spend our time teaching skills for survival and eventually the discipline light gets turned on(hopefully "
The hat doesn't make the Drill Sergeant, it only helps him. It takes a lot of energy and planning to be an effective Drill Sergeant. Many of the big blow ups and "wow" events that you remember about your Drill 10 years later were most likely carefully planned. We can't keep that level going 24/7 but when the soldier identifies the level of control as being present with the hat...the Drill Sergeant doesn't have to keep that energy level up or he can direct it to another that needs it. Another tool that Drill Sergeants used when we still shined boots and pressed uniforms was wearing multiple sets each day. It added to the "wow" factor that the Drill Sergeant always had perfect uniform and boots.
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