Posted on Dec 24, 2021
Opinion | The Marine Corps has a ‘participation award’ problem
1.59K
24
9
7
7
0
Posted in these groups: 
Awards
Awards
Edited 3 y ago
Posted 3 y ago
Responses: 5
7
7
0
I found this to be a very interesting article. It addresses a problem in all the services that can be traced back to the latter part of the Vietnam War: awards proliferation.
I had a drill sergeant in BCT who was wounded as a grunt in the 1st Cav. Div. in 1966. He had a CIB, Purple Heart, Good Conduct Medal, National Defense Service Medal, Vietnam Service Medal, and Vietnam Campaign Medal. He also wore a Valorous Unit Award ribbon on his right breast. That told me a lot about how awards were given out in the 1st Cav. in the early part of the Vietnam War.
By the time I arrived in country in the summer of 1970, unit commanders received a printout each month showing personnel in the unit in the 5th and 11th months of their tours. If the commander wanted a man to receive no award, he drew a line through the name. If he wanted the man to receive an ARCOM, he took no action. If he wanted the soldier to receive a Bronze Star, he wrote "BS" next to the name. Seems fitting in light of what this article points out.
I was given a Bronze Star for meritorious achievement halfway through my tour primarily in recognition of my duty performance during Operation Lam Son 719. At the end of my tour, my CO mentioned he was putting me in for a second Bronze Star, this time for meritorious service. I told him I would appreciate it if he would make it an ARCOM. He pushed his chair back, looked at me quizzically and said somewhat incredulously: "WTF for?"
I explained that I had a Bronze Star, Purple Heart, NDSM, VSM and VCM and that if he gave me an ARCOM, I would have two full rows of ribbons. He rubbed his temples, shook his head and dismissed me. When I cleared the division Awards Section I learned he'd given me an ARCOM.
Of course, it never occurred to me that the Bronze Star is awarded only in wartime. You can get ARCOMs and MSMs anytime. Ooops! I sure screwed up. I never saw combat again, but I got four MSMs and four more ARCOMs plus a Joint Service Commendation Medal.
Much to my chagrin, after having my tank company earn the FY '85 Draper Award for Armor Leadership, I was the only company commander in my battalion NOT to get an MSM. My commander said it was because the new division commander, who'd just come from a tour in charge of the Officer Personnel Directorate at MILPERCEN, was of the opinion that NO company commander warranted award of an MSM and he thought by giving me, a guy with a Draper Award and TWO successful company commands during my tour, an ARCOM it would send a clear message. Sigh.
Ironically, I had hopes of getting the Legion of Merit when I retired. However, that was not to be. During my second year at USMA as an asst. professor I got into a flap that caught the Supe's attention and resulted in my getting a desk-drawer letter of reprimand. It also killed my chances of getting a LOM at retirement. Oh, well . . .
I had a drill sergeant in BCT who was wounded as a grunt in the 1st Cav. Div. in 1966. He had a CIB, Purple Heart, Good Conduct Medal, National Defense Service Medal, Vietnam Service Medal, and Vietnam Campaign Medal. He also wore a Valorous Unit Award ribbon on his right breast. That told me a lot about how awards were given out in the 1st Cav. in the early part of the Vietnam War.
By the time I arrived in country in the summer of 1970, unit commanders received a printout each month showing personnel in the unit in the 5th and 11th months of their tours. If the commander wanted a man to receive no award, he drew a line through the name. If he wanted the man to receive an ARCOM, he took no action. If he wanted the soldier to receive a Bronze Star, he wrote "BS" next to the name. Seems fitting in light of what this article points out.
I was given a Bronze Star for meritorious achievement halfway through my tour primarily in recognition of my duty performance during Operation Lam Son 719. At the end of my tour, my CO mentioned he was putting me in for a second Bronze Star, this time for meritorious service. I told him I would appreciate it if he would make it an ARCOM. He pushed his chair back, looked at me quizzically and said somewhat incredulously: "WTF for?"
I explained that I had a Bronze Star, Purple Heart, NDSM, VSM and VCM and that if he gave me an ARCOM, I would have two full rows of ribbons. He rubbed his temples, shook his head and dismissed me. When I cleared the division Awards Section I learned he'd given me an ARCOM.
Of course, it never occurred to me that the Bronze Star is awarded only in wartime. You can get ARCOMs and MSMs anytime. Ooops! I sure screwed up. I never saw combat again, but I got four MSMs and four more ARCOMs plus a Joint Service Commendation Medal.
Much to my chagrin, after having my tank company earn the FY '85 Draper Award for Armor Leadership, I was the only company commander in my battalion NOT to get an MSM. My commander said it was because the new division commander, who'd just come from a tour in charge of the Officer Personnel Directorate at MILPERCEN, was of the opinion that NO company commander warranted award of an MSM and he thought by giving me, a guy with a Draper Award and TWO successful company commands during my tour, an ARCOM it would send a clear message. Sigh.
Ironically, I had hopes of getting the Legion of Merit when I retired. However, that was not to be. During my second year at USMA as an asst. professor I got into a flap that caught the Supe's attention and resulted in my getting a desk-drawer letter of reprimand. It also killed my chances of getting a LOM at retirement. Oh, well . . .
(7)
(0)
CPT Kevin McComas
On point as usual here Brother Dale. Thanks for the share and the personal experience. On a side note, I would love to buy you a beer one day and hear more about your WP "flap" - the silliness of that place never ceases to amaze
(1)
(0)
3
3
0
It’s Hard to Tell War Heroes From Paper-Pushers When Everybody Gets So Many Dumb Ribbons
Time to reform the Pentagon’s award system
(3)
(0)
2
2
0
I assisted in trying to get 750 awards squared away for Soldiers in my unit, not just end of tour type stuff but awards they were missing they should have received for time in service or previous tours. It wasn't my MOS and it wasn't my lane, but if no one did it then it would never happen. I found the entire situation to be extremely frustrating.
Soldiers earned plenty of service awards that they didn't receive, or awards were kicked back for trivial reasons or in violation of Army Regulation. Primary example is that it's against the reg to deny an award based on rank, yet I saw Officers and NCO's doing just that.
The award problem is our younger NCO's and Officers don't know how to fill out a 638 or 4187, and even if they do there are NCO's and Officers at battalion or higher that halt it because they didn't like the way it was written and again against the process will not allow the award to go forward repeatedly forcing an open door policy to fix it.
S1 types should screen awards for illiterate attempts at submission, but not continuously deny it as certain awards need to go through commanders that only have recommendation authority not approval authority. If the commander chooses to recommend disapproval, downgrade, approval, or upgrade then that is that commanders prerogative but at a certain point the commander needs to actually see the recommendation.
I watched NCO's and Officers get downright unprofessional trying to fight for their own Soldiers to get an award they deserved. Some just gave up because in some units there's so much bureaucratic BS added to the awards process. I saw an ARCOM get kicked back six times and S1 said it wasn't written well enough, but the funny thing is a former S1 OIC and a former 42A NCO helped write it up and had it peer reviewed with current 42A's, there's too much arbitrary power in denying and kicking back before an award is sent to a commander for recommendation before it gets to the approval authority.
The vast majority of Soldiers get out after one contract. I'm not saying throw out awards like candy, but I am saying give them what they've earned with no fuss. Those awards don't belong to you, they don't even belong to the Soldier being awarded them. They belong to their family, when they're hung up in a shadowbox on a wall someday for their kids and grand kids to see and feel some pride in their family member, their Soldier.
Soldiers earned plenty of service awards that they didn't receive, or awards were kicked back for trivial reasons or in violation of Army Regulation. Primary example is that it's against the reg to deny an award based on rank, yet I saw Officers and NCO's doing just that.
The award problem is our younger NCO's and Officers don't know how to fill out a 638 or 4187, and even if they do there are NCO's and Officers at battalion or higher that halt it because they didn't like the way it was written and again against the process will not allow the award to go forward repeatedly forcing an open door policy to fix it.
S1 types should screen awards for illiterate attempts at submission, but not continuously deny it as certain awards need to go through commanders that only have recommendation authority not approval authority. If the commander chooses to recommend disapproval, downgrade, approval, or upgrade then that is that commanders prerogative but at a certain point the commander needs to actually see the recommendation.
I watched NCO's and Officers get downright unprofessional trying to fight for their own Soldiers to get an award they deserved. Some just gave up because in some units there's so much bureaucratic BS added to the awards process. I saw an ARCOM get kicked back six times and S1 said it wasn't written well enough, but the funny thing is a former S1 OIC and a former 42A NCO helped write it up and had it peer reviewed with current 42A's, there's too much arbitrary power in denying and kicking back before an award is sent to a commander for recommendation before it gets to the approval authority.
The vast majority of Soldiers get out after one contract. I'm not saying throw out awards like candy, but I am saying give them what they've earned with no fuss. Those awards don't belong to you, they don't even belong to the Soldier being awarded them. They belong to their family, when they're hung up in a shadowbox on a wall someday for their kids and grand kids to see and feel some pride in their family member, their Soldier.
(2)
(0)
SFC (Join to see)
I agree mostly. I think nearly no recognition breeds resentment and in the long run negatively affects retention and even recruitment. That said though, some changes could help. The reordering the order of precedence to value valor over rank is one step, but for sheer bloat some awards (at least in the Army) could use curtailing or elimination (IMHO). GWTSM or GWTEM: Expeditionary implies service, so why do we need both? NCOPDRand ASR: unnecessary because if the Soldier wheres the uniform and rank it implies both. Additionally having extra bling on dress/service uniforms only adds to the issue (I mean regimental pins when we already have lapel insignia for our area). Just a few thoughts, but that could help.
(1)
(0)
SPC (Join to see)
SFC (Join to see) - Another issue we should address is the way combat patches are being divvied out to preferred Soldiers. For example I witnessed a no go for any Soldiers crossing into Iraq for any reason with exceptions being given to certain units or reassigned Soldiers obvious reasons. That's understandable and makes sense, combat area, only send what's needed no lookie loos. Near the end of the tour, hey let's send the command teams and all of their chosen officers and SNCO's who haven't been patched up yet for a 2 day into Iraq or KSA to get patched.
Now per the verbiage I agree, one step in an authorized zone and you get patched. I'm fine with that, if you were needed for the mission good for you, glad you made it back safe. What happens and the end is what I disapprove of, feels like it cheapens the meaning of it. Especially after watching junior officers gush over their patches spouting about which one was better.
Now per the verbiage I agree, one step in an authorized zone and you get patched. I'm fine with that, if you were needed for the mission good for you, glad you made it back safe. What happens and the end is what I disapprove of, feels like it cheapens the meaning of it. Especially after watching junior officers gush over their patches spouting about which one was better.
(1)
(0)
SFC (Join to see)
SPC (Join to see) As a slick sleever for years, I looked with a bit of envy toward my seniors/peers who had deployed (and had those no strategic experiences), but I can't really imagine getting a patch for a day or two for no other reason than to check the box. I was in a non deployable position in Army space for years, but then did a few rotations supporting some task forces in Africa and Iraq (same patch LOL). I never really saw this issue, but I wasn't with big Army units (thank goodness).
BTW I think my patch with a black spade is quite nice, but I did carry my dad's big red one in my pocket through BCT and it is fairly iconic. I wouldn't look down on anyone else's patch though, and just hope it isn't just for show.
BTW I think my patch with a black spade is quite nice, but I did carry my dad's big red one in my pocket through BCT and it is fairly iconic. I wouldn't look down on anyone else's patch though, and just hope it isn't just for show.
(0)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google