Posted on Nov 5, 2019
Trump's move on Paris climate agreement raises 2020 stakes
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Posted 5 y ago
Responses: 2
I worked for over a decade in environmental tech, so here's my take. When it comes to the "truth" about environmentalism... there's a lot of misinformation, more unqualified opinion, and even more misapplication. I've been to AQMD meetings where the smartest people in the room likely had no concept of what is scientifically achievable... only very passionate feelings regarding what "should" be achievable. A "zero emissions" mindset is impractical... and sub 1-5 ppm emissions are possible, but often prohibitively expensive. Comparing coal to natural gas, or either to nuclear is preposterous. "Renewable Sources" are not the answer to supporting major grids... and come with their own list of negative environmental impacts. Truth be told, industry has done more to improve air and water quality over the last thirty years than anyone seems capable of crediting them for... and yes, we owe almost all of that to regulation; most of which was put in place decades before President Obama or the Paris Climate Agreement.
Here's why I think it's important to pull out of the Paris accord... it's aims are ambiguous and broad, as are its potential impacts on socio-economics. It's trying to leverage a political solution to a technical problem... and weakening the sovereign power of the member nations in the effort (again, in my opinion). You can pass a law stating that CO, VOC, and NOx emissions must be at sub parts per million... or even sub parts per billion (which generally can't even be measured for monitoring and regulation); that doesn't mean the technology is available to do either. That means you would need alternative means of producing energy (as of yet unavailable or unreliable)... or you would need to curtail energy consumption. Now, think of what that means at the ground level... is that even feasible?
At the end of the day, I'm an advocate for some environmental regulation-it works, and makes "good sense" for the future. What I'm opposed to is allowing politics to drive energy policy to the extent that the goals are unachievable-at least without risking significant negative impacts to a society driven and dependent on energy.
Here's why I think it's important to pull out of the Paris accord... it's aims are ambiguous and broad, as are its potential impacts on socio-economics. It's trying to leverage a political solution to a technical problem... and weakening the sovereign power of the member nations in the effort (again, in my opinion). You can pass a law stating that CO, VOC, and NOx emissions must be at sub parts per million... or even sub parts per billion (which generally can't even be measured for monitoring and regulation); that doesn't mean the technology is available to do either. That means you would need alternative means of producing energy (as of yet unavailable or unreliable)... or you would need to curtail energy consumption. Now, think of what that means at the ground level... is that even feasible?
At the end of the day, I'm an advocate for some environmental regulation-it works, and makes "good sense" for the future. What I'm opposed to is allowing politics to drive energy policy to the extent that the goals are unachievable-at least without risking significant negative impacts to a society driven and dependent on energy.
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LCDR Joshua Gillespie
SN Donald Hoffman - An interesting factoid about automobile emissions reductions: Most of the technologies applied to IC engines (catalytic conversion and/or DPF, or lean-NOx traps) only work for a limited number of years; possibly decreased by driving conditions. Translation? Even the measures in place are, when considered realistically and practically... less than ideal, unless legislation is going to force consumers to purchase costly new components periodically (kinda already in place in some states). It's not a question of going "slow", or "backwards"... it's more a question of how much of our cake can we have and eat it too? Where I think many get this "wrong" is presuming Trump has some innate desire to "exploit" the environment purely to make profit. A more accurate statement may be that Trump understands the more you regulate energy, the more you negatively impact the economy.
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SN Donald Hoffman
I know he understand full well about cost. He understands the more you regulate the more it cost. To my point, regarding the end game. The more the world leaders see the US, Pull back. Human nature will see the bright light elsewhere . It’s a calculated game he is playing, that may push the US completely out of the conversation. Or by winning the end game, the damage is done. Who win? Dose it matter. It will take time to get to that point. You and I will be gone. It is a fatalistic view . We just don’t listen to Mother Nature. She keeps dropping hint. We keep on ignoring her. LCDR Joshua Gillespie
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LCDR Joshua Gillespie
SN Donald Hoffman - I don't fancy myself a fatalist, so much as a realist. I simply don't believe we're headed towards a self-generated apocalypse spawned by carbon emissions, NOx, and VOCs. I do believe we've unleashed a terrible nuclear genie that has claimed potentially millions of lives since the mid-20th Century, and that as a population, we're becoming sick on cheaply-produced food "product", dependent on medications, and overly-dependent on "conveniences". I figure given enough time, the bottom will fall out of the world's economies long before the air turns to poison in our lungs. Whether or not we control the conversation is, with respect, immaterial... we, and perhaps Europe, are the only societies who even sincerely "care". To my mind, the politics of "climate change" are about power-not preservation. All globalism does is empower a smaller number of people to control the masses as they see fit... and fear is a great engine for fueling tyranny. Beyond that, I think you and I share some common beliefs on this subject... and I thank you for a very good discussion.
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I think that the President should propose that we plant one trillion trees in federal lands - and elsewhere if landowners or foreign powers agree.
This solves the CO2 problem.
Your move, socialist money grabbers.
This solves the CO2 problem.
Your move, socialist money grabbers.
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SN Donald Hoffman
Ok, say it is possible. Did he calculate how old the trees would have to be to make it plausible? I like the idea, but The population would have to stay the same or decrease to make it work.
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1SG (Join to see)
SN Donald Hoffman - We are working over time here. In theory, it would be managed forestland that we could harvest and replant periodically, just like managed forests today. I didn't read the whole paper so I don't know the answer about how mature the trees would have to be.
I suppose it would vary by tree species, and the trees you'd use would be different depending on latitude.
Every solution the climate folks put forward envision destroying out way of life and confiscating money from industry. I think a natural solution like this would actually work, and not screw us in the process.
I suppose it would vary by tree species, and the trees you'd use would be different depending on latitude.
Every solution the climate folks put forward envision destroying out way of life and confiscating money from industry. I think a natural solution like this would actually work, and not screw us in the process.
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SN Donald Hoffman
I agree. I also agree Natural solutions would be the best course of action. Implementing them is the tricky part. A portion of my land is bog. It is off limits to every one. Why, they are becoming rare eco system. I also plant trees and have created food plots for year round feeding. Get cold and snowy in Northern Minnesota.1SG (Join to see)
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1SG (Join to see)
SN Donald Hoffman - Plenty of room for more trees up there. Just make Superior National Forest bigger. You wouldn't even need to encumber existing cabins to do it.
Also, plenty of trees grow well in bogs. That is prime fertile ground.
Also, plenty of trees grow well in bogs. That is prime fertile ground.
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