Posted on Oct 3, 2018
Photos Show Confrontation Between USS Decatur and a Chinese Navy Warship in South China Sea –...
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So these photos show just how harrowing this encounter was. I've seen, on various sites, some variation of 'why did the the US ship give way?! They should have stood their ground!'. No. No they shouldn't have. The answer to that is: Rules of the Road. International treaties that inform the actions of nearly ALL seafaring nations require Sailors of any sort, civilian or military, to abide by 'traffic laws'. Just like you do commuting to work. Absent direct orders or combat situations, no US commander is going to intentionally violate the rules of the road. So that Captain was entirely in the right...which means the Chinese captain was NOT. In my personal opinion, this is a pretty big escalation, and I find myself hoping that those orders to violate those Rules comes down for the next interaction like this.
Edit:
To clarify, the rules of the road are pretty clear, and I'll paraphrase them: "Follow these rules until doing so results in a collision (because another actor is an idiot), and then, break them to your heart's content, so long as you don't collide. But you'd damned well better be right." <-- Seriously, it says something like that. So yeah. This is serious stuff.
Edit:
To clarify, the rules of the road are pretty clear, and I'll paraphrase them: "Follow these rules until doing so results in a collision (because another actor is an idiot), and then, break them to your heart's content, so long as you don't collide. But you'd damned well better be right." <-- Seriously, it says something like that. So yeah. This is serious stuff.
Photos Show Confrontation Between USS Decatur and a Chinese Navy Warship in South China Sea –...
Posted from gcaptain.com
Safety
Sailors
South China Sea
Edited 6 y ago
Posted 6 y ago
Responses: 6
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This really isn’t an issue. It’s not new issue, either. We goad them, they goad us. It’s been going on between the US and (fill in the blank) for decades. This is the equivalent of two kids on the play ground, chest to chest, yelling, “come at me bro!”. But each has their hands down, knowing/hoping the other kid won’t swing first.
And if they collide? The Chinese detain our crew, interrogate them, send us the bill and we’ll issue a ‘sorry/not sorry’ letter. ‘No’, you say? I’d refer you to the Hainan Island incident (2001). There’s a precedent. It’s happened. It can certainly happen again. (*note, if our Captain swerved, great. Only a maniac wouldn’t. All the navy needs right now is another crashed Destroyer, under any circumstance)
World powers going at it in direct conflict makes little sense for anyone. That’s why it really doesn’t happen too much. However, the threat of world powers going at it in direct conflict makes a lot of sense for everyone, particularly those who stand to make money due to that threat. (The whole military industrial complex thing).
When they sink one of our ships, shoot down one of our planes or attempt a land invasion (or vice versa), we’ll have entered into a new era of ‘serious’. Until then, nothing to get spun up about.
And if they collide? The Chinese detain our crew, interrogate them, send us the bill and we’ll issue a ‘sorry/not sorry’ letter. ‘No’, you say? I’d refer you to the Hainan Island incident (2001). There’s a precedent. It’s happened. It can certainly happen again. (*note, if our Captain swerved, great. Only a maniac wouldn’t. All the navy needs right now is another crashed Destroyer, under any circumstance)
World powers going at it in direct conflict makes little sense for anyone. That’s why it really doesn’t happen too much. However, the threat of world powers going at it in direct conflict makes a lot of sense for everyone, particularly those who stand to make money due to that threat. (The whole military industrial complex thing).
When they sink one of our ships, shoot down one of our planes or attempt a land invasion (or vice versa), we’ll have entered into a new era of ‘serious’. Until then, nothing to get spun up about.
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SN Greg Wright
You're correct in principal, but warship-to-warship interactions like this are, in fact, pretty rare. It's a lot easier (and vastly more common) to do this sort of thing with aircraft. Ships shadow each other all the time, etc. But a 45 yard pass? That's not common.
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SGT (Join to see)
Negative. Look at Iran. Their Navy is a constant thorn in our side, buzzing our warships with their fast boats and other ships. (If you don’t think those are dangerous, look up LTG Van Riper, and Millenium Challenge ‘02)
In the air, on the seas...again, this is all posturing. And both sides will do everything to avoid an actual conflict, as an actual conflict between the heavy hitters really helps no one.
In the air, on the seas...again, this is all posturing. And both sides will do everything to avoid an actual conflict, as an actual conflict between the heavy hitters really helps no one.
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SN Greg Wright
SGT (Join to see) - Negative. My point is this: Warships do not come within 45 yards of one another...EVER. Your anecdotes of Iranian gunboats is straw man: They have never, EVER come within 45 yards. Else they'd be vaporized. You are correct that posturing is commonplace. My point is: it is unusual for 2 warships (WARSHIPS) to have such a close encounter.
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US Destroyer's Close Encounter With a Russian Ship
A US destroyer violated international and bilateral agreements by approaching a Russian ship dangerously close this month while it was following its course a...
SN Greg Wright - Negative. You use the term ‘strawman’ incorrectly. Ultimately, the point of a strawman argument is, “You put forth a straw man because you know it will be easy for you to knock down or discredit.” As I’m not trying to get you to defend Iranian encounters or warships, im also not trying to discredit that argument after you defend it. Furthermore, as it’s actually not an easy argument to knock down or discredit, it would not be considered a strawman.
Moving along. I wasn’t in the navy, but you seem to have a unique understanding of what a ‘warship’ is. But the fine folks at the Cambridge University Press define ‘warship’ as: “ 1. a ship supplied with guns, for use in war. 2. a boat equipped with guns and other weapons of war.” So it seems Iranian warships would meet the criteria. Additionally, look into MC ‘02. It quite clearly showed how a carrier group could be sunk in a handful of minutes. A barrage of Iranian style fast boats were integral to the attack.
And you state it never happens. Definitely not for the WARSHIPS, to come that close to each other. See attached link:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7hiZmp2lg7w
It just shows the USS Gravely practically drag racing with a Russian boat. (Looks like it was a few years ago). So if f by ‘it never happens’, you mean ‘it actually does happen, then sure, it never happens.
I’ve gotta ask...vaporized by who, us? We’d dust them for getting too close? Negative. They crashed our plane, detained our crew. We didn’t retaliate. Heck, the Israelis almost sunk the Liberty, and the Fleet didn’t come running in, vaporizing everything in its sight.
Especially after WWII, the major world powers realized that direct conflict between them would only collectively hurt them all. So that’s why on my list of things to worry about tomorrow, a direct conflict with China is near the bottom.
Moving along. I wasn’t in the navy, but you seem to have a unique understanding of what a ‘warship’ is. But the fine folks at the Cambridge University Press define ‘warship’ as: “ 1. a ship supplied with guns, for use in war. 2. a boat equipped with guns and other weapons of war.” So it seems Iranian warships would meet the criteria. Additionally, look into MC ‘02. It quite clearly showed how a carrier group could be sunk in a handful of minutes. A barrage of Iranian style fast boats were integral to the attack.
And you state it never happens. Definitely not for the WARSHIPS, to come that close to each other. See attached link:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7hiZmp2lg7w
It just shows the USS Gravely practically drag racing with a Russian boat. (Looks like it was a few years ago). So if f by ‘it never happens’, you mean ‘it actually does happen, then sure, it never happens.
I’ve gotta ask...vaporized by who, us? We’d dust them for getting too close? Negative. They crashed our plane, detained our crew. We didn’t retaliate. Heck, the Israelis almost sunk the Liberty, and the Fleet didn’t come running in, vaporizing everything in its sight.
Especially after WWII, the major world powers realized that direct conflict between them would only collectively hurt them all. So that’s why on my list of things to worry about tomorrow, a direct conflict with China is near the bottom.
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I didn't see a chart with it, wondering if the Chinese ship was farther out, so that when Decatur maneuvered, they had to maneuver close to disputed water. Would give the Chines more to argue, but for us to ignore because they are international waters..
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