Posted on Apr 16, 2018
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Would he actually do it, I doubt it. However, if he actually does go through with it, I would support impeachment. I haven't agreed with any impeachment proceedings in the past year, or even calls for impeachment. I don't much like Trump, but so far he hasn't done anything to justify impeachment. And while it may pass in the House, I very much doubt the Senate would uphold it, much like what happened with Clinton.
383243-dems-see-mueller-firing-as-a-red-line-on-impeachment
Posted from thehill.com
Donald Trump
Democrats
Government
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 6
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Pres Trump could fire Mueller anytime because he is a political appointee in the DOJ. Since the special counsel statute expired, there is no law preventing the President from exercising control of the Executive Departments. Mueller isn't a civil service employee and the protections of the civil service system and OPM don't apply. More appropriately, Pres Trump could tell Mueller to wrap things up within a certain time limit, such as 60 days. If "high crimes and misdemeanors" haven't been found with regard to collusion with Russia by now, they probably won't be. It's time to bring this to an end.
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Cpl Tom Surdi
Except we don't know what has or hasn't been found. We know that several people associated with Trump's campaign have had charges brought against them, some have plead guilty and are now helping with the investigation. We don't have all the information, so we are unable to determine if this investigation should or should not continue. It is NOT common for people handling an investigation to make public all the information they gather, in fact it is quite uncommon. This is exactly why the investigation should continue unhampered. I would prefer the truth, regardless of what it is to come out, not rush it or shut it down because we don't have all the information or it isn't going fast enough for some people.
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Lt Col Jim Coe
Cpl Tom Surdi - If Trump or Sessions don't take affirmative action to close out the investigation, it will drag on through the President's first term and probably into the second. The obvious, but unstated, purpose of the Mueller investigation is to find or create an impeachable offense or to otherwise make the Trump presidency ineffective. The whole thing was started on a lie and should be shut down.
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Cpl Tom Surdi
Lt Col Jim Coe - What lie is that? If you are referring to the dossier even the GOP in their own memo admitted that very little of that dossier was used to start the investigation, and that there were other factors involved. If you are referring to something else, please tell me so I have all the information.
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MAJ Bryan Zeski
Lt Col Jim Coe - I think Mueller will put his cards on the table following the mid-terms.
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I offer this link, it includes notes by James Madison, during the founding father's debate on removal from office of the President. Overthrowing the electorate process ought not be done lightly.
http://www.famous-trials.com/johnson/487-constitution
http://www.famous-trials.com/johnson/487-constitution
The Constitution and Impeachment
The Constitution, Article II, Section 4:The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.
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Cpl Tom Surdi
PFC Jim Wheeler - Capt Gregory Prickett - Both of those seem a little on the soft side for an attempt to steal an election.
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PFC Jim Wheeler
Cpl Tom Surdi how did he "steal" the election. That presumes that the election belonged to the other candidate, doesn't it. Keep in mind that the allegation is that they got derogatory info from a Russian national, that info may have swayed swing voters, but the voters still cast their own votes.
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Cpl Tom Surdi
PFC Jim Wheeler - I never said he did, and I have refrained from making any decisions until the investigation is complete, I don't much like him, but he is innocent until proven guilty. All I am saying is that collusion or conspiring with a foreign power in order to win an election is tantamount to stealing it, and it should be a crime, pure and simple.
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PFC Jim Wheeler
Cpl Tom Surdi I never said you thought he was guilty.
I asked how you believe he "stole" the election since it didn't belong to anyone i.e. is not property to be stolen. Then I mentioned that the alleged action was that he got derogatory info from a Russian national.
Could that info have swayed swing voters? Sure, but my question to you was, "how is that stealing the election?"
How could he steal something that belongs to no one and, more importantly, how is publishing info about a candidate tantamount to that election theft.
You made the claim that it was tantamount to stealing an election (if it happened); I just want you to explain how that is.
I asked how you believe he "stole" the election since it didn't belong to anyone i.e. is not property to be stolen. Then I mentioned that the alleged action was that he got derogatory info from a Russian national.
Could that info have swayed swing voters? Sure, but my question to you was, "how is that stealing the election?"
How could he steal something that belongs to no one and, more importantly, how is publishing info about a candidate tantamount to that election theft.
You made the claim that it was tantamount to stealing an election (if it happened); I just want you to explain how that is.
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You might want to read the special counsel law. The president, any president, through the DOJ can fire (or cause to be fired) a special counsel. There is nothing to impeach over it. Some wouldn't like it but it is in the law. You can find it, if you are interested in being informed vs opinionated at
28 CFR Part 600 - GENERAL POWERS OF SPECIAL COUNSEL
The special counsel can be removed by the AG or the acting AG if recused. The AG/Acting AG reports to the President and can be directed to remove a special counsel for the reasons listed in the law.
While it could be politically damaging to remove a special counsel for no reason or a questionable reason (which for Trump, in the media, would be any reason). There is nothing to impeach over. So while that may cross a line for you, it is a line in your imagination, not the law or the Constitution.
28 CFR Part 600 - GENERAL POWERS OF SPECIAL COUNSEL
The special counsel can be removed by the AG or the acting AG if recused. The AG/Acting AG reports to the President and can be directed to remove a special counsel for the reasons listed in the law.
While it could be politically damaging to remove a special counsel for no reason or a questionable reason (which for Trump, in the media, would be any reason). There is nothing to impeach over. So while that may cross a line for you, it is a line in your imagination, not the law or the Constitution.
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PFC Jim Wheeler
Capt Gregory Prickett wasn't it from years before he even knew President Trump? How could that have reasonably come up while looking for connections between President Trump and Russia?
Unrelated sidenote: you mentioned a court case on here once that referred to which arms are guaranteed to the populace. I believe it was from the early 1800s, English v. Something sticks in my mind. Do you remember what case that was?
Unrelated sidenote: you mentioned a court case on here once that referred to which arms are guaranteed to the populace. I believe it was from the early 1800s, English v. Something sticks in my mind. Do you remember what case that was?
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PFC Jim Wheeler
Capt Gregory Prickett wait, Manafort was his lawyer or Cohen was? I was referring to Manafort with my question, if that makes a difference.
Yep, that's the one. Thanks! I had been trying to find the comment, but it isn't that easy to search on RP. What I meant about the types of weapons comment was the protection of military arms that it seems to protect.
Yep, that's the one. Thanks! I had been trying to find the comment, but it isn't that easy to search on RP. What I meant about the types of weapons comment was the protection of military arms that it seems to protect.
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Cpl Jeff N.
Cpl Tom Surdi - Well Tom, that is a different position than you lead with. You wanted Trump impeached if he fired Mueller, period. Now you concede there are legitimate reasons he can have him fired and remain well within the law. I am glad to see you evolving on the issue.
You should know the law was written by politicians and lawyers. Neither of which are very trustworthy but they are clever. Reread the below section of the law.
"The Attorney General may remove a Special Counsel for misconduct, dereliction of duty, incapacity, conflict of interest, or for other good cause, including violation of Departmental policies."
Violating department policies or conflict of interest or other good causes are very wide nets. That is why the laws are written that way. It is the weasel clause that give them all an out when the shit hits the fan.
You should know the law was written by politicians and lawyers. Neither of which are very trustworthy but they are clever. Reread the below section of the law.
"The Attorney General may remove a Special Counsel for misconduct, dereliction of duty, incapacity, conflict of interest, or for other good cause, including violation of Departmental policies."
Violating department policies or conflict of interest or other good causes are very wide nets. That is why the laws are written that way. It is the weasel clause that give them all an out when the shit hits the fan.
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Cpl Tom Surdi
Cpl Jeff N. - No, I always said that if Trump fires Mueller it better be for a damn good reason and if there isn't, it could be an impeachable offense and that I would support it. But so far Mueller hasn't done anything to warrant being fired, and that is my point. Trump DOESN'T have a damn good reason, and if he did fire Mueller at this point in time, Trump may face impeachment. But I also stated that I think won't fire him, he'll talk and bluster, blow off steam, but ultimately he wont do it.
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