Posted on Aug 21, 2017
Commentary: The rank structure is holding us back. It’s time for drastic change
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Let the explosion commence. Most of the issues he lists don't seem like a rank structure issue, but more of a leadership/ego issue.
One of the comments, I don't particularly agree with, even goes so far as to state that all officers should serve as enlisted prior to commissioning. I can see the point in the same comment about junior enlisted getting priority for service academies if they want to go, though.
One of the comments, I don't particularly agree with, even goes so far as to state that all officers should serve as enlisted prior to commissioning. I can see the point in the same comment about junior enlisted getting priority for service academies if they want to go, though.
Commentary: The rank structure is holding us back. It’s time for drastic change
Posted from militarytimes.com
Rank
Leadership
Officers
Enlisted
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 68
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Just remember the < military > times publications are now owned by the left-leaning publication company, Sightline Media, formally the Gannet group, ran by USA Today. They have a hatred for the US as it was founded that most of us just cannot fathom.
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SGT Larry Braswell
Cpl (Join to see) - too bad there aren't more like buttons on these posts. I could give you a dozen or so...
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Scott Kruchell
I thought this was a joke article at first. WHO & WHY would change the rank/ ratings structure. It would seem to me to bring nothing but chaos & confusion, IF implemented. Excuse me for butting in, While I don't have actual service, my father did. I learned ALOT from him.
Another thing I noticed, IF you don't mind my saying. I seemed to mainly concerned with peoples "feelings", i.e. a senior enlisted that a junior officer didn't listen to. How would the "new" structure" prevent that. There is always going to be, for lack of a better term, EGO involved for some people. I could give at least a couple stories from my father off the top of my head.
In short, as a civilian I think this would be a very bad thing. The structure that the services have, have exsisted since they began. They have gotten US through TWO World Wars, the "Cold" war all the way through the War on Terror. To borrow some old saying, DON'T fix it if it ain't broke. Well at least in my opinion.
Another thing I noticed, IF you don't mind my saying. I seemed to mainly concerned with peoples "feelings", i.e. a senior enlisted that a junior officer didn't listen to. How would the "new" structure" prevent that. There is always going to be, for lack of a better term, EGO involved for some people. I could give at least a couple stories from my father off the top of my head.
In short, as a civilian I think this would be a very bad thing. The structure that the services have, have exsisted since they began. They have gotten US through TWO World Wars, the "Cold" war all the way through the War on Terror. To borrow some old saying, DON'T fix it if it ain't broke. Well at least in my opinion.
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Cpl (Join to see)
Right there at the bottom of the page of militarytimes dot com and if you really don't have your eyes open you'll never be aware of their bias.
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1. Billet over rank:
This was preached to the high heavens and in many cases it holds true. The military is a blend of rank and billet. You won't win everything, sometimes rank just carries a little more, but at the same time you're not supposed to let yourself be pushed around. There is a reason why you're in said billet.
2. Request Mast:
It's a tool. Don't abuse it. Most conflicts can be solved before escalation with a cool mind, logical thought process, and having a better but realistic solution.
3. Plant seeds and shape:
Shape those that outrank you or will one day outrank you. Your leaders are your investment the same as those that follow you. You want to be led by the best.
4. Always fallback on Leadership 101:
Do what's in the best interest of the mission and your people.
5. The "Enlisted/Officer Gap" is bridged by good leadership and brotherhood.
That about summarizes it.
This was preached to the high heavens and in many cases it holds true. The military is a blend of rank and billet. You won't win everything, sometimes rank just carries a little more, but at the same time you're not supposed to let yourself be pushed around. There is a reason why you're in said billet.
2. Request Mast:
It's a tool. Don't abuse it. Most conflicts can be solved before escalation with a cool mind, logical thought process, and having a better but realistic solution.
3. Plant seeds and shape:
Shape those that outrank you or will one day outrank you. Your leaders are your investment the same as those that follow you. You want to be led by the best.
4. Always fallback on Leadership 101:
Do what's in the best interest of the mission and your people.
5. The "Enlisted/Officer Gap" is bridged by good leadership and brotherhood.
That about summarizes it.
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Cpl (Join to see)
As a LCPL I became a CDI and inspected quite a few jobs performed by NCO's. I've even told pilots/officers they couldn't fly. Imagine wielding that kind of power, err billet.
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SFC James Welch
I am very proud of all my young Lieutenants I worked with, Male and Female. I had three become General Officers and received a letter of thanks from each of them. In 20 years I only worked with three Officers that were losers. Although the system protected them Karma got each of them before the end. Always treat each other with Honor, Integrity and Respect! If you are a Senior NCO and a young Officer fails, it’s because you failed them who depended upon you. There is no greater crime in the Military than that, in my opinion!
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CPT (Join to see)
SGT, you make some fantastic points. As a former enlisted 2LT, I knew that part of the success of the unit relied upon my abilty and humbleness to to allow my platoon sergeants to lead and coordinate our efforts to the beast of our mission and personnel. This guy has some good points about letting the most qualified people be in charge, but without formal structure and processes to get there, it would not work well. I've had young Soldiers that I groomed for success because It's clear they woud make great leaders. We have to let people strive for success!
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SSgt Boyd Herrst
You commented : Plant seeds and shape.. that’s what i’ve Done my whole time in the AF and it works.
Some call it kissing up.. I watch from a distance and move in like a cat.. and do favorable things that are within the guidelines... I hear about things these officers and Sr
NCOs like or want.. I find them a direct link.. that’s not bribing, just providing the source that’s easy to procure from.. for example: I was at the Navy Base hospital as an in-patient... and got friendly with diet techs and dieticians there.. I was able to see their NaVpers GSA catalog. And I found the Particular
Special ice cream our Colonel was looking for. I got the cat # and any other pertinent info .. as soon as I was out of there and back to where I worked.. Dietetics/nutrition.. I gave the Colonel the info:: she contacted them and there seemed to be a technical difficulty.. we were not Navy or Marine Corp.. So she called a friend who did the same.
12 hours later we had 36 gallons of that special blend ice cream.
I got some nice kudos for the link..
She took it from there.. I got the TDY I wanted to go to Shepherd AFB, TX..for a certain course.. she knew the ins n outs of certain Regs.
I wasn’t changing my career field. Just supplementing what I had.
Even though Cook Supervisor is what I re-enlisted under I also had a
5 level Diet Tech AFSC. This school would give. Me additional schooling
As a 7 level Diet tech. My primary would still be 62270 . I still got orders to go to SAC Command to
The Food Service Section. Well Grand Forks Hospital found I was also a diet tech.. I got borrowed a few times to help when they had a bad virus come through .. I was busy busy busy.. We got them all fed... They had a TSGT that was playing pencil pusher.. yeah he outranked me.. I got the Lt to get him out from his desk once in a while and help us get them meals done.. it would sure lighten the load.. He helped, we weren’t the best of pals..I wasn’t there to be a pal.. just help them feed them people. We sent some to Univ ND
Hospital.. the more serious cases..
Wherever I been I learned to work with and manipulate so I could get
Needed favors.. it usually came to benefit those that helped me.. So I could do a better job of helping them do theirs..
Some call it kissing up.. I watch from a distance and move in like a cat.. and do favorable things that are within the guidelines... I hear about things these officers and Sr
NCOs like or want.. I find them a direct link.. that’s not bribing, just providing the source that’s easy to procure from.. for example: I was at the Navy Base hospital as an in-patient... and got friendly with diet techs and dieticians there.. I was able to see their NaVpers GSA catalog. And I found the Particular
Special ice cream our Colonel was looking for. I got the cat # and any other pertinent info .. as soon as I was out of there and back to where I worked.. Dietetics/nutrition.. I gave the Colonel the info:: she contacted them and there seemed to be a technical difficulty.. we were not Navy or Marine Corp.. So she called a friend who did the same.
12 hours later we had 36 gallons of that special blend ice cream.
I got some nice kudos for the link..
She took it from there.. I got the TDY I wanted to go to Shepherd AFB, TX..for a certain course.. she knew the ins n outs of certain Regs.
I wasn’t changing my career field. Just supplementing what I had.
Even though Cook Supervisor is what I re-enlisted under I also had a
5 level Diet Tech AFSC. This school would give. Me additional schooling
As a 7 level Diet tech. My primary would still be 62270 . I still got orders to go to SAC Command to
The Food Service Section. Well Grand Forks Hospital found I was also a diet tech.. I got borrowed a few times to help when they had a bad virus come through .. I was busy busy busy.. We got them all fed... They had a TSGT that was playing pencil pusher.. yeah he outranked me.. I got the Lt to get him out from his desk once in a while and help us get them meals done.. it would sure lighten the load.. He helped, we weren’t the best of pals..I wasn’t there to be a pal.. just help them feed them people. We sent some to Univ ND
Hospital.. the more serious cases..
Wherever I been I learned to work with and manipulate so I could get
Needed favors.. it usually came to benefit those that helped me.. So I could do a better job of helping them do theirs..
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I see a main point in this piece. Officers are not listening to their senior NCOs, or the experience from their groups. In the National Guard, we have members from a large spectrum of capabilities. The skills range from construction, IT, Search and Rescue, and weapons. Those are just within my platoon. If you do not listen to personnel with specific skills, and utilize them accordingly, you will fail as a leader.
This discussion has been brought up on different threads. They have all shown a disregard for experience over rank. (E-7 compared to O-1)
An underlying issue I picked up on was the "Red Tape" portion of it. Recently I have seen this issue first hand. Requests would go through the Chain of Command, then to contractors, and back to the CoC.
This process killed our ability to complete missions overseas. The military has been relying on contractor positions and split-level departments for a long time now. I do see issues with some of the splits in personnel. However, it keeps them focused on "their own bobber". They have separation to keep from stepping on each other's toes.
Experience must be utilized correctly. If someone without knowledge of their assignment fails to use the knowledge of the experienced personnel, they are going to have trouble accomplishing their mission. We cannot re-structure the military to mirror a corporation. That is not what we, as a fighting force, are about.
This discussion has been brought up on different threads. They have all shown a disregard for experience over rank. (E-7 compared to O-1)
An underlying issue I picked up on was the "Red Tape" portion of it. Recently I have seen this issue first hand. Requests would go through the Chain of Command, then to contractors, and back to the CoC.
This process killed our ability to complete missions overseas. The military has been relying on contractor positions and split-level departments for a long time now. I do see issues with some of the splits in personnel. However, it keeps them focused on "their own bobber". They have separation to keep from stepping on each other's toes.
Experience must be utilized correctly. If someone without knowledge of their assignment fails to use the knowledge of the experienced personnel, they are going to have trouble accomplishing their mission. We cannot re-structure the military to mirror a corporation. That is not what we, as a fighting force, are about.
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SSgt (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see) I agree, sir. I wonder if leadership not listening to their experienced members is just another symptom of toxic leadership?
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SSG (Join to see)
SSgt (Join to see) - I have seen "Toxic Leadership" get moved around. One month, they are just short of being demoted, or sectioned out. The next, they are moved to another unit and promoted. Or, they are given a soldier to do their work for them. Once they have a good review, they get promoted.
The system fails in some cases. It is harmful to the morale of many lower enlisted soldiers to see this happen. It's extremely disheartening to the soldiers who are directly involved in instances like these.
The system fails in some cases. It is harmful to the morale of many lower enlisted soldiers to see this happen. It's extremely disheartening to the soldiers who are directly involved in instances like these.
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PO2 Bull Halsey
This is an age old old problem of ego disrespecting wisdom and experience. However, under duress, rank leads in most cases until the troops are no longer willng to follow. Leaders have to gradually earn the respect of the troops from the respect the leaders have for them. A unit that is experiencing disdain by its leaders will have more problems. That is not to say that complaining about the command is a bad thing.
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TSgt James Smith
As an NCO and being a Flt Eng. I Only had one officer ever argue with me , He lost and was permently grounded and this was in Viet Nam on a combat mission. No regrets rest of the crew officer & enlisted back me up and thanked me.
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