Posted on Jul 10, 2016
The NRA’s internal split over Philando Castile
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Not being an annual Dues paying NRA member, I found the NRA's lack of clear outrage on the shooting death of a CCW licensed to carry handgun owner and citizen who appeared by the video to be doing all the right things a CCW Driver is supposed to do, when stopped by the police, while lawfully CCWing, by a police officer in Minnesota INEXPLICABLE!
Oh and by the way he was black, had no criminal record, was fully employed, and I had to ask myself if Philando Castille had been white, would he not have received the thunderous support of the Nation's largest Gun Rights Group and Pro-Second Amendment Group that has lobbied vigorously for states to pass "Shall Issue Laws" that make it easy for ordinary citizens to get a permit to carry concealed weapons. Where was the immediate condemnation of the police officer who appeared to shoot a complying driver FOUR times at point blank range, who posed no immediate threat to the Officer. WTF?
At the minimum , the NRA should have called the video extremely disturbing and distressing as it seems to show the horrible aftermath of a lawful CCW driver, dying, without any apparent medical attention, after being shot by a police officer, multiple times, after doing everything that CCW classes tell you to do, 1) inform the officer that you have a CCW, 2) where the weapon is, and 3) that you will do nothing that is not ordered by the officer for you to do.
This kind of weak tea response and lack of outreach to minority communities by the NRA (who often need the right of self-defense that is inherent in the 2A's right to Bear and Keep arms, more than those of us who live in relatively safe suburbs, far from the gang and crime infested inner cities, is completely baffling to me, as a gun owner, former CCW holder, and gun collector:
"“Your lack of message concerning the Castile case disappoints me and makes me question my membership,” Marco Gallologic wrote on the NRA’s Facebook page. “…What do I pay fees for if you do not represent gun owners and our rights?”
“Your silence is causing NRA members such as myself to question/wonder what exactly you do and don’t stand for,” Facebook user Bruce Johnston wrote."
IMHO the NRA and all of its resources should have been made available to Mr. Philandro Castile's family as soon as the earliest facts were known and the video appeared to show the murder of a law abiding Citizen and CCW holder in what should have been a "routine" traffic stop and citation for a "fix it" ticket for a taillight that was out.
It is this lack of concern for a minority member of our community that was legally and lawfully carrying his firearms for self-defense, that confirms my opinion that the NRA as an Gun Rights organization, is wildly out of touch with gun violence that is a horrible reality for mostly inner-city, urban minority citizens of our country.
Without Gun Rights and Pro 2A Organization's willingness to engage with minorities who are most affected by gun violence, the field is left to Anti-Gun, liberal Democrats, such as we see grandstanding on the floor of Congress demanding Gun Control and restrictions on our Liberal (in the classic sense) Gun Rights, and soon we may hear from these misguided persons a demand to repeal or severely change of the Second Amendment of the Constitution, either by constitutional amendment, or through the appointment of Federal Judges at the Supreme Court and the lower \federal Courts who are hostile to the the Second Amendment's fundamental and individual right to own firearms for self-protection.
Its not enough for the general public to condemn police misconduct, gun rights organizations must SUPPORT citizens who are harmed for exercising their lawful rights to bear and keep arms, whether or not that that means police harassment, or unjustifiable arrest or detention, or in the case of Black Motorist and CCWer Philandro Castile, an unjustifiable police homicide.
All of us should condemn the violence against the police that is happening not just in Dallas, but across the country, in the strongest words possible. This is a symptom of a greater illness of how some people in our society have becoming so evil and marginalized and disconnected and radicalized that they could actually think that random or deliberate acts of violence against police officers is ever justified.
Fixing whatever is wrong with the police, is the duty of the city councils and mayors, and police commissions, and lawyers and judges, and Police Leadership, but ultimately the responsibility of the citizenry of this country, that demands that police do their jobs, constitutionally and effectively.
It has to do with the screening process of who is privileged with the awesome responsibility that we entrust police with - to make split second decision that have life or death consequences.
It has to do with adequate budgets for training and equipment and for supervision.
It has to do with holding up the police as an honorable and noble profession that should attract the best persons in our society. They should be paid a salary and benefits and provided a generous retirement plan that attracts people who could successfully compete for many other professions in our society.
It should be a profession and a calling that everyone of us would be and should be willing to recommend our sons and daughters. My brother is a career firefighter and captain, after 25 years on the job, and nearing retirement. My son will always have my support and blessing should he chose to become a firefighter or a police officer. That is how much I hold in esteem, those two professions that my family and many of childhood and high school friends chose either before or after, either serving in the the military or graduating from college.
The Police across the country are a vital and necessary public service and branch of government that often is the face of government and the first form of government that many people will encounter in their lives. If that initial contact with citizens is negative or is routinely negative, than it is no wonder that certain communities do not see the police as their friends and protectors but as a negative form of government in their community. That is a situation that must change with what we now call community policing. Many police historians saw this disconnect with the communities began when police stopped walking foot beats and started patrolling in radio cars some 60 years ago or so. I wonder if social media can help re-connect the beat cop to the citizens he or she serves in their assigned beat?
Oh and by the way he was black, had no criminal record, was fully employed, and I had to ask myself if Philando Castille had been white, would he not have received the thunderous support of the Nation's largest Gun Rights Group and Pro-Second Amendment Group that has lobbied vigorously for states to pass "Shall Issue Laws" that make it easy for ordinary citizens to get a permit to carry concealed weapons. Where was the immediate condemnation of the police officer who appeared to shoot a complying driver FOUR times at point blank range, who posed no immediate threat to the Officer. WTF?
At the minimum , the NRA should have called the video extremely disturbing and distressing as it seems to show the horrible aftermath of a lawful CCW driver, dying, without any apparent medical attention, after being shot by a police officer, multiple times, after doing everything that CCW classes tell you to do, 1) inform the officer that you have a CCW, 2) where the weapon is, and 3) that you will do nothing that is not ordered by the officer for you to do.
This kind of weak tea response and lack of outreach to minority communities by the NRA (who often need the right of self-defense that is inherent in the 2A's right to Bear and Keep arms, more than those of us who live in relatively safe suburbs, far from the gang and crime infested inner cities, is completely baffling to me, as a gun owner, former CCW holder, and gun collector:
"“Your lack of message concerning the Castile case disappoints me and makes me question my membership,” Marco Gallologic wrote on the NRA’s Facebook page. “…What do I pay fees for if you do not represent gun owners and our rights?”
“Your silence is causing NRA members such as myself to question/wonder what exactly you do and don’t stand for,” Facebook user Bruce Johnston wrote."
IMHO the NRA and all of its resources should have been made available to Mr. Philandro Castile's family as soon as the earliest facts were known and the video appeared to show the murder of a law abiding Citizen and CCW holder in what should have been a "routine" traffic stop and citation for a "fix it" ticket for a taillight that was out.
It is this lack of concern for a minority member of our community that was legally and lawfully carrying his firearms for self-defense, that confirms my opinion that the NRA as an Gun Rights organization, is wildly out of touch with gun violence that is a horrible reality for mostly inner-city, urban minority citizens of our country.
Without Gun Rights and Pro 2A Organization's willingness to engage with minorities who are most affected by gun violence, the field is left to Anti-Gun, liberal Democrats, such as we see grandstanding on the floor of Congress demanding Gun Control and restrictions on our Liberal (in the classic sense) Gun Rights, and soon we may hear from these misguided persons a demand to repeal or severely change of the Second Amendment of the Constitution, either by constitutional amendment, or through the appointment of Federal Judges at the Supreme Court and the lower \federal Courts who are hostile to the the Second Amendment's fundamental and individual right to own firearms for self-protection.
Its not enough for the general public to condemn police misconduct, gun rights organizations must SUPPORT citizens who are harmed for exercising their lawful rights to bear and keep arms, whether or not that that means police harassment, or unjustifiable arrest or detention, or in the case of Black Motorist and CCWer Philandro Castile, an unjustifiable police homicide.
All of us should condemn the violence against the police that is happening not just in Dallas, but across the country, in the strongest words possible. This is a symptom of a greater illness of how some people in our society have becoming so evil and marginalized and disconnected and radicalized that they could actually think that random or deliberate acts of violence against police officers is ever justified.
Fixing whatever is wrong with the police, is the duty of the city councils and mayors, and police commissions, and lawyers and judges, and Police Leadership, but ultimately the responsibility of the citizenry of this country, that demands that police do their jobs, constitutionally and effectively.
It has to do with the screening process of who is privileged with the awesome responsibility that we entrust police with - to make split second decision that have life or death consequences.
It has to do with adequate budgets for training and equipment and for supervision.
It has to do with holding up the police as an honorable and noble profession that should attract the best persons in our society. They should be paid a salary and benefits and provided a generous retirement plan that attracts people who could successfully compete for many other professions in our society.
It should be a profession and a calling that everyone of us would be and should be willing to recommend our sons and daughters. My brother is a career firefighter and captain, after 25 years on the job, and nearing retirement. My son will always have my support and blessing should he chose to become a firefighter or a police officer. That is how much I hold in esteem, those two professions that my family and many of childhood and high school friends chose either before or after, either serving in the the military or graduating from college.
The Police across the country are a vital and necessary public service and branch of government that often is the face of government and the first form of government that many people will encounter in their lives. If that initial contact with citizens is negative or is routinely negative, than it is no wonder that certain communities do not see the police as their friends and protectors but as a negative form of government in their community. That is a situation that must change with what we now call community policing. Many police historians saw this disconnect with the communities began when police stopped walking foot beats and started patrolling in radio cars some 60 years ago or so. I wonder if social media can help re-connect the beat cop to the citizens he or she serves in their assigned beat?
The NRA’s internal split over Philando Castile
Posted from washingtonpost.com
Police
2nd Amendment
Firearms and Guns
NRA
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 20
12
12
0
First of all, we don't know what Castille did or didn't do as the video only shows the aftermath. What the video does show is that the officer was visibly upset and the girlfriend was unusually calm. Very strange behavior on her part.
Second, we don't know what he was reaching for. According to the girlfriend it was his wallet. However, maybe it was his gun. The officer stated (through his lawyer) that he told Castillo not to move.
Third, as a CCW holder, he should have known better than to reach for anything.
Folks need to calm down a bit and wait for the investigation before they lose there marbles over this shooting. Just like the Ferguson shooting, once that facts came out, the situation was completely different than what it first appeared.
CCW holders need to be smart and realize their is a tremendous amount of responsibility in carrying a gun. They also need to understand the liabilities associated with carrying.
The NRA needs to have a clear and consistent message. If they want to be relevant, they need to figure out their path. They also should push for better training for CCW holders. I agree that as Americans, we have a right to carry. But that right carries great responsibility also.
Second, we don't know what he was reaching for. According to the girlfriend it was his wallet. However, maybe it was his gun. The officer stated (through his lawyer) that he told Castillo not to move.
Third, as a CCW holder, he should have known better than to reach for anything.
Folks need to calm down a bit and wait for the investigation before they lose there marbles over this shooting. Just like the Ferguson shooting, once that facts came out, the situation was completely different than what it first appeared.
CCW holders need to be smart and realize their is a tremendous amount of responsibility in carrying a gun. They also need to understand the liabilities associated with carrying.
The NRA needs to have a clear and consistent message. If they want to be relevant, they need to figure out their path. They also should push for better training for CCW holders. I agree that as Americans, we have a right to carry. But that right carries great responsibility also.
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Capt Lance Gallardo
Thor, I always say when you want to study a person's or an organization's priorities, follow the money! Money never lies! When you pay police poorly, who are you going to attract? The best and the brightest? Or someone else? That is not always true, as there are people, like Catholic priests or Non-profit people (even teachers to a large degree) who are attracted to certain professions that have nothing to do with the remuneration. But try to start a family on that 42K or buy a house for your family, and you start to see how hard it is to be a Dallas Officer on the kind of wages that city wants to pay you.
But it is also about the way we view police as a profession in this society. How do we hold the profession in esteem? Is this a job or a profession you would want your son or daughter to join? My mother talks about my son being the first Doctor in the family? What about him being the first cop? Her other son is the first firefighter in the family, who has had a great career, and under CALPERS is retirement eligible this year with 25vyears of service and 50 years old, why not follow in his uncle's footsteps? If my son said he wanted to go into Law Enforcement I would encourage him to study the best departments out there, that offer a competitive salary and retirement benefits and speak to some of the current officers to find out where morale is in the department. Then make his best decision. Same analysis about joining the US Military, except I definitely would encourage him to look hard at the US Airforce which all of my experience tells me treats its people the best, offers the most education benefits, the best housing, I am sure you know better than I do.
But it is also about the way we view police as a profession in this society. How do we hold the profession in esteem? Is this a job or a profession you would want your son or daughter to join? My mother talks about my son being the first Doctor in the family? What about him being the first cop? Her other son is the first firefighter in the family, who has had a great career, and under CALPERS is retirement eligible this year with 25vyears of service and 50 years old, why not follow in his uncle's footsteps? If my son said he wanted to go into Law Enforcement I would encourage him to study the best departments out there, that offer a competitive salary and retirement benefits and speak to some of the current officers to find out where morale is in the department. Then make his best decision. Same analysis about joining the US Military, except I definitely would encourage him to look hard at the US Airforce which all of my experience tells me treats its people the best, offers the most education benefits, the best housing, I am sure you know better than I do.
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SSG Robert Webster
SMSgt Thor Merich - Actually since the 2004 report came out the Wichita PD has improved in that area quite a bit. The impetus behind the 2004 report was because of citizens complaining and not believing the 2001 report. I for one did not believe the original 2001 report when it was used as evidence that the Wichita PD was not profiling people after they received a number of complaints, and I was one of the individuals that lodged a complaint.
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SMSgt Thor Merich
SSG Robert Webster - One of the problems with trying to identify if the police are profiling is that the police can change their habits to skew the numbers. For example, one way to track profiling is to track traffic stops by officers. If a truly racist cop who hates African Americans wants to cover-up his activities, he would pull over more Whites than anyone else.
However, on the plus side, if an officer knows that he/she is being tracked, they will have to change their behavior to avoid being caught.
I am glad that Wichita PD has improved. I hate bad cops more than I hate crooks as cops are supposed to be held to a higher standard.
However, on the plus side, if an officer knows that he/she is being tracked, they will have to change their behavior to avoid being caught.
I am glad that Wichita PD has improved. I hate bad cops more than I hate crooks as cops are supposed to be held to a higher standard.
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CPT Alec L.
First, no matter what the facts come to reveal, it's a tragedy for all. Second, having been the security manager for a major (NYSE listed) company, been with an MP unit, worked with police and federal security units as they interacted with employees, there are some facts missing here. As a concealed carrier I alert the law officer, with both hands visible (usually on the steering wheel) that I am "legally carrying." (I DO NOT say, "I have a gun." Any back-up officer may only hear the word "gun" and assume the worst.) Then one only moves when the officer tells you to, and then only as he/she says to move.
The current info seems to be the officer was alerted to the individual carrying and then the victim was seen moving. We don't know much else and this could either be a victim acting aggressively or a law officer not being clear in instructions and then over-reacting, or anything in between.
The NRA, IMO, should only express sorry at any death until the facts are known. Otherwise we can end up with a Ferguson scenario where the facts end up being completely at odds with the first, "Hands-up" version that was shown to be bogus in that case.
NRA Endowment Member, NRA Pistol Instructor
The current info seems to be the officer was alerted to the individual carrying and then the victim was seen moving. We don't know much else and this could either be a victim acting aggressively or a law officer not being clear in instructions and then over-reacting, or anything in between.
The NRA, IMO, should only express sorry at any death until the facts are known. Otherwise we can end up with a Ferguson scenario where the facts end up being completely at odds with the first, "Hands-up" version that was shown to be bogus in that case.
NRA Endowment Member, NRA Pistol Instructor
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The first dollar (literally a buck) I earned as a lawyer was paid to me by my law school classmate and roommate and one of my best friends to this day, PR W__t, a brother from South Chicago and a NUPE, a proud member of the Black Fraternity Kappa Alpha Psi, who, coming off the late night shift at Mickey Dees, in North Omaha, NE (the black part of Omaha, yes in Omaha, Nebraska, the African American community literally lived on the other side of the railroad tracks in North Omaha), got stopped by the police (while in his McDonald's Uniform as a shift manager) because "he matched the description of a suspect." PR is the kind of Brother that people have described in the past as an "Uppity Black Man," so he told the police what he thought of how he matched the description of the suspect, while dressed in a Mc Donald's Uniform, and gave them the phone number of his store for them to confirm that he just came off of work.
The Omaha Police were not happy being spoken to in that manner by a big black man who was not afraid to tell the police off, so they gave him a bullshit traffic ticket for making a right turn from the left lane (pulling over to the right when they T-stopped him with the red police car light). I had just been admitted to the Bar on that Friday, in September of 1990, so on Monday I took his traffic ticket to downtown Omaha Criminal Court, and spoke with the duty prosecutor who happened to be an African American Prosecutor whom I had met when he came to my law school (Creighton), and after I explained how my client got the ticket, he cancelled the citation and told me to tell my client how I had brow beat the prosecutor into cancelling the ticket. When I got back to our apartment and I told my friend and client that his ticket got cancelled by his newly minted attorney roommate, he pulled out that big wallet of his and handed me a single dollar bill, telling me it was the most honest buck I would ever make in my career as an attorney. I promptly thanked him and called him a "cheap motherf__er!" He later paid for my drinks that night when we went out to celebrate with some friends and we are friends to this day.
Until I got married and had a child with my wife, I used to go out to his home in Columbus, Ohio. every Thanksgiving to hang out with PR and his fraternity brothers and fellow black Free Masons. It was one Mexican American and a bunch of African American Men watching football, eating soul food ( Collard Greens that Brother Grady's wife always made for us), PR's crazy good Mac and Cheese, sweet potato pie and a perfectly well cooked turkey. That was one tasty Bird! It was a chance for the single or divorced friends (and a couple married men with spousal permission) to do the Annual Men's Retreat as we called it. Lots of fun. We also talked some politics, and it was clear to me as the only non-black man in the group that Police traffic stops and the danger of police violence to a black man, was a real phenomena that had to be taken into account in any interaction with police officers.
You also had to teach your black sons how to prepare for police interaction, as a "life skill" as essential as driving a car or learning how to swim. This is a FACT that non-black America is just now starting to understand. Like Rodney King here in LA, why, I need to ask, did it take videos, to make the rest of the country understand, what Black America has known for years, that police and black men interactions are different, qualitatively and numerically and in every way possible. Why did it take videos and not the numerous accounts, lawsuits and testimonials for the rest of us to believe what African Americans have been saying for years? Why?
The Omaha Police were not happy being spoken to in that manner by a big black man who was not afraid to tell the police off, so they gave him a bullshit traffic ticket for making a right turn from the left lane (pulling over to the right when they T-stopped him with the red police car light). I had just been admitted to the Bar on that Friday, in September of 1990, so on Monday I took his traffic ticket to downtown Omaha Criminal Court, and spoke with the duty prosecutor who happened to be an African American Prosecutor whom I had met when he came to my law school (Creighton), and after I explained how my client got the ticket, he cancelled the citation and told me to tell my client how I had brow beat the prosecutor into cancelling the ticket. When I got back to our apartment and I told my friend and client that his ticket got cancelled by his newly minted attorney roommate, he pulled out that big wallet of his and handed me a single dollar bill, telling me it was the most honest buck I would ever make in my career as an attorney. I promptly thanked him and called him a "cheap motherf__er!" He later paid for my drinks that night when we went out to celebrate with some friends and we are friends to this day.
Until I got married and had a child with my wife, I used to go out to his home in Columbus, Ohio. every Thanksgiving to hang out with PR and his fraternity brothers and fellow black Free Masons. It was one Mexican American and a bunch of African American Men watching football, eating soul food ( Collard Greens that Brother Grady's wife always made for us), PR's crazy good Mac and Cheese, sweet potato pie and a perfectly well cooked turkey. That was one tasty Bird! It was a chance for the single or divorced friends (and a couple married men with spousal permission) to do the Annual Men's Retreat as we called it. Lots of fun. We also talked some politics, and it was clear to me as the only non-black man in the group that Police traffic stops and the danger of police violence to a black man, was a real phenomena that had to be taken into account in any interaction with police officers.
You also had to teach your black sons how to prepare for police interaction, as a "life skill" as essential as driving a car or learning how to swim. This is a FACT that non-black America is just now starting to understand. Like Rodney King here in LA, why, I need to ask, did it take videos, to make the rest of the country understand, what Black America has known for years, that police and black men interactions are different, qualitatively and numerically and in every way possible. Why did it take videos and not the numerous accounts, lawsuits and testimonials for the rest of us to believe what African Americans have been saying for years? Why?
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When concealed carrying you don't put your hands in or near your pockets, waistband, inside a coat or anywhere they can't be seen while talking to a police officer or he has the right to shoot in self defense. You allow him to remove your weapon first. Then once he says go ahead and put your hands in your pocket to remove anything you might need. A good concealed carry weapon can be shot from inside your pocket. That's what I was taught in my class
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Capt Lance Gallardo
I was stopped in a speed trap about five years ago in Arizona going to court, and I asked the officer why he did not ask me if I was carrying? His answer: "This is the wild wild west, we assume everyone has a gun on them or in their glove box. It is not relevant so I did not ask you. Here is your ticket, sign here."
Completely different attitude. Of course I was in a suit and tie, probably looked like a lawyer running late for court, and I was courteous, compliant and I did not match a armed robbery suspect information. Every encounter the police have with the public is different. Every state has different laws regarding CCWing. At one point in Arizona, your cars were matched to your CCW status, so when the police ran your plates, they came back to a CCW holder, as well as RO.
Completely different attitude. Of course I was in a suit and tie, probably looked like a lawyer running late for court, and I was courteous, compliant and I did not match a armed robbery suspect information. Every encounter the police have with the public is different. Every state has different laws regarding CCWing. At one point in Arizona, your cars were matched to your CCW status, so when the police ran your plates, they came back to a CCW holder, as well as RO.
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SSG Robert Webster
Capt Lance Gallardo - Are you trying to borrow some of SGT Steven Hildreth's thunder?
SGT Hildreth has an RP account, but does not appear to be very active within this forum.
http://fox6now.com/2015/10/29/mans-facebook-post-about-traffic-stop-goes-viral/
SGT Hildreth has an RP account, but does not appear to be very active within this forum.
http://fox6now.com/2015/10/29/mans-facebook-post-about-traffic-stop-goes-viral/
Man’s Facebook post about traffic stop goes viral again
TUCSON, Ariz. — Aman’s Facebook post about a traffic stop in October 2015 is going viral. Steven Hildreth Jr. says he was pulled over by the Tucson Police Department for a broken headl…
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Capt Lance Gallardo
Awesome article thank you for sharing that SSG Webster! Arizona is different in that the police have had years to acclimate to people carrying Openly or Concealed. If you love your 2A rights it is hard to beat Arizona as a great place to live, work or retire to. My family has deep roots in Arizona, and I think hard about retiring there or moving there to finish out my professional working career.
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