Posted on Jun 16, 2016
Until the No Fly List Is Fixed, It Shouldn’t Be Used to Restrict People’s Freedoms
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So you think the No Fly list is a good idea...... The courts have held you have no right to fly, so can be denied this non right at the whim of law enforcement, politician, or administrator Are you on it? Until you fly you may never know....Why are you on it ? The Government and courts have said they have no requirement to tell you, which of course makes it a bit difficult to present a case why you should not be on it.
Until the No Fly List Is Fixed, It Shouldn’t Be Used to Restrict People’s Freedoms
Posted from aclu.orgPosted in these groups: TSA
Firearms and Guns
Firearms and Guns
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 3
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SGM Erik MarquezTotally agree. For how long the no fly list has been around. It is crazy that the thing is still not accurate.
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SGM Erik Marquez
SGM Steve Wettstein Not just inaccurate.. But the lack of due process to be placed on the list, the failure of the government to tell an accused WHY they are on it and a hugely flawed redress process if you feel you are wrongly accused.
Have the same or similar name as a person on the no fly list.. you are GUILTY until you prove yourself innocent .. you must make your case to Homeland Security and if they agree with you, they will supply you a redress number.. You are still listed, still guilty still accused everytime you fly, but you can then whip out your papers and TSA will proble let you fly
Have the same or similar name as a person on the no fly list.. you are GUILTY until you prove yourself innocent .. you must make your case to Homeland Security and if they agree with you, they will supply you a redress number.. You are still listed, still guilty still accused everytime you fly, but you can then whip out your papers and TSA will proble let you fly
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PO3 Steven Sherrill
SGM Steve Wettstein not only inaccurate, but generalized. Using you as an example, They could be suspicious of a middle eastern man aged 53 years, but they put the name on the list with no quantifying data, so you show up at the airport for your trip to Hawaii, and are denied boarding because you happen to share a name with someone. RIDICULOUS!!!
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SGM Erik Marquez No fly list should have the more stringent requirements even than pre-trial confinement for criminal offenses. It already starts with presumption of guilt which is a violation of the individuals civil rights.
That being said, here would be my short outline for a no fly list's requirements.
1) Individual on the list must be identified by more than a first and last name. Muhammad is one of the most common first names on the planet, Smith the most common surname. James Smith the most common first name Surname combo. So without having identifiers including a photo, date of birth, and physical description, a name on a list should be invalid as a means of disqualification
2) Probable Cause. When a person is charged with a crime and held for pre-trial confinement, there is a requirement that there be some evidence that the person has in fact committed the crime, and that they are dangerous to the community (or a flight risk) to the point that they are confined before trial. A no fly list should require that the agency adding the individual to the list have probable cause to believe that the specific individual poses a risk to air traffic, and therefore should be barred from flying.
3) A speedy trial. Since a no fly list does not include actually having charges filed against an individual, there should be a burden upon the listing agency to resolve the issue in an expedient manner. If there is evidence that the individual is a credible threat to air traffic, then they should be charged with a crime, tried, and let the court system determine whether or not they are guilty of a crime. This includes presumption of innocence. If the listing agency cannot produce evidence that the person should be charged with a crime, then they should be required to remove the individual from the No-Fly list in an expedient manner.
4) If the listing agency cannot meet the first three requirements, then they should not be allowed to add the requested entity to the no fly list.
That being said, here would be my short outline for a no fly list's requirements.
1) Individual on the list must be identified by more than a first and last name. Muhammad is one of the most common first names on the planet, Smith the most common surname. James Smith the most common first name Surname combo. So without having identifiers including a photo, date of birth, and physical description, a name on a list should be invalid as a means of disqualification
2) Probable Cause. When a person is charged with a crime and held for pre-trial confinement, there is a requirement that there be some evidence that the person has in fact committed the crime, and that they are dangerous to the community (or a flight risk) to the point that they are confined before trial. A no fly list should require that the agency adding the individual to the list have probable cause to believe that the specific individual poses a risk to air traffic, and therefore should be barred from flying.
3) A speedy trial. Since a no fly list does not include actually having charges filed against an individual, there should be a burden upon the listing agency to resolve the issue in an expedient manner. If there is evidence that the individual is a credible threat to air traffic, then they should be charged with a crime, tried, and let the court system determine whether or not they are guilty of a crime. This includes presumption of innocence. If the listing agency cannot produce evidence that the person should be charged with a crime, then they should be required to remove the individual from the No-Fly list in an expedient manner.
4) If the listing agency cannot meet the first three requirements, then they should not be allowed to add the requested entity to the no fly list.
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PO3 Steven Sherrill
PO1 Tony Holland - Yes, and they double as an AWESOME receptacle for libations after mayhem has occurred.
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I was on the no fly list because some guy with the same name and he was a white male! And to top it off I was a Police Officer!
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