Posted on Jun 10, 2015
Recommending a type of discharge for your Soldiers
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When it comes the time, and it will come, for you to recommend a type of discharge when a Soldier either becomes a non-participant or tests positive on a urinalysis, what type of discharge should you recommend? Before you decide, it is important to understand the process. I am writing this to inform everyone about the different types of discharges, when they can be used and when they are utilized in the Army Reserves.
There are four types of discharges in the military: 1. Honorable, 2. General, under honorable conditions, 3. Other than honorable, and 4. Bad conduct. The first three may be given administratively, the fourth can only be given by court martial. So what are the differences between these, when will you use these, and what do each of these mean for the person being discharged?
Honorable discharges, as the name suggests, are what everyone who serves their time honorably without any major issues receives when they finish their obligatory time in the service or if they are medically retired/discharged.
General, under honorable conditions, is the characterization for those who may have had some issues and were released from service. This is given to those who did not ship to basic training. It can also be requested by those who encountered legal issues such as testing positive on a urinalysis on a conditional waiver. Ultimately it is up to the Commanding General to determine whether or not to grant a conditional waiver and give the Soldier a general, under honorable conditions discharge. This discharge may have some impact on what benefits the discharged Soldier could retain and apply for through the VA.
Other than honorable, as the name suggests, is the type of discharge given to many Soldiers who have had legal issues such as a positive urinalysis or non-participant status. This is an administrative discharge and categorization that greatly impacts the benefits that the discharged Soldier may retain and apply for through the VA. It is likely that it will impact them if they apply for both state and federal jobs. Though not always true, this type of discharge is generally the default characterization for those who are being processed out of service for testing positive for drugs.
The fourth and final type of discharge is a bad conduct discharge. This can only be granted through a court martial. Due to the nature of the Army Reserves being part-time, this is not a common occurrence, but it is possible. This type of discharge greatly impacts the benefits that the discharged Soldier may retain and apply for through the VA. This can also greatly impact them when they apply for any job.
On the Veteran’s Affairs website it states that: “A discharge characterized by the military as under honorable conditions is binding on VA and allows for VA to provide benefits if other eligibility requirements are met. If a discharge was not characterized as under honorable conditions, benefits are not payable unless VA determines the discharge was ‘under conditions other than dishonorable.’ By law, certain situations resulting in a discharge under less than honorable conditions constitute a legal bar to the payment of benefits.”
For more on VA benefits and the types of discharges see this link http://www.benefits.va.gov/BENEFITS/docs/COD_Factsheet.pdf
For those who test positive on urinalysis there are two types of “hots” that they can come up on. The first is for illegal drugs and the other is for some type of prescription drug. Illegal drugs are forwarded as a drug demand reduction (DDR) and the paperwork begins to discharge through Chapter 12. For prescription drugs, some commands process it as a Chapter 12 and request any supporting documentation to determine if it is a valid prescription or not. This will allow the packet to go up through the chain of command and it either exonerates the Soldier or starts the separating process as it was not authorized use of prescription drugs. Other commands go through a medical review officer (MRO) where the Soldier is given an opportunity to provide documentation to show that they have a prescription for the drug that they tested for. Based on the documentation, or lack of documentation, there are three types of determination that the MRO can make: 1. Legitimate, 2. Illegitimate, 3. Illegal. Legitimate is those who have a current prescription for the drug that they tested positive for. Illegitimate is if the Soldier has a prescription for the drug, but it is expired. Illegal is if the Soldier did not have a prescription for the drug that they tested positive for.
Once the command is notified of the “hot”, they will sit the Soldier down and read them their Article 32 rights and inform them that they have tested positive and notify them of their options to obtain a lawyer (military at no cost to the Soldier, civilian at no cost to the government), to obtain documentation, administrative hearing (if they have over 6 years in service), and if they want to seek a conditional waiver. They can either invoke these options or waive them. They have 30 days to respond (45 if they have a lawyer). The Company Commander will make a determination of which type of discharge to recommend (they must recommend one) out of the three administrative (honorable, general under honorable conditions, or other than honorable). They will also recommend either retaining or discharging the Soldier and must provide the rationale. The Battalion and Brigade Commanders will either concur or non-concur in their memorandums. Ultimately, the Commanding General will determine to retain or discharge the Soldier and what characterization. If retained, the Soldier can be given a suspended sentence where he/she is given a year of probation so if he/she stays clean and performs honorably, he/she will be retained. If the Soldier tests positive or has any misconduct, the command can send up a vacate packet to discharge the Soldier. If discharged, orders will be cut and the Soldier can appeal the discharge or type of discharge if they so choose.
For non-participants, the notification will be sent out and they are given 30 days to respond (45 if they retain a lawyer) before the Company Commander makes their recommendations and submits the Chapter 13 packet. The rest of the process is similar to the DDR process.
Be familiar with your command, some have default recommendations of reduction to E-1 and other than honorable discharge. Talk to your Battalion Commander and your JAG for advice. You know your Soldiers, so if they are worth fighting for, fight for them, but you have to put that supporting information into your memorandum. At times, this may bite you if you recommended retaining the Solider and they test positive again…so be careful.
There are four types of discharges in the military: 1. Honorable, 2. General, under honorable conditions, 3. Other than honorable, and 4. Bad conduct. The first three may be given administratively, the fourth can only be given by court martial. So what are the differences between these, when will you use these, and what do each of these mean for the person being discharged?
Honorable discharges, as the name suggests, are what everyone who serves their time honorably without any major issues receives when they finish their obligatory time in the service or if they are medically retired/discharged.
General, under honorable conditions, is the characterization for those who may have had some issues and were released from service. This is given to those who did not ship to basic training. It can also be requested by those who encountered legal issues such as testing positive on a urinalysis on a conditional waiver. Ultimately it is up to the Commanding General to determine whether or not to grant a conditional waiver and give the Soldier a general, under honorable conditions discharge. This discharge may have some impact on what benefits the discharged Soldier could retain and apply for through the VA.
Other than honorable, as the name suggests, is the type of discharge given to many Soldiers who have had legal issues such as a positive urinalysis or non-participant status. This is an administrative discharge and categorization that greatly impacts the benefits that the discharged Soldier may retain and apply for through the VA. It is likely that it will impact them if they apply for both state and federal jobs. Though not always true, this type of discharge is generally the default characterization for those who are being processed out of service for testing positive for drugs.
The fourth and final type of discharge is a bad conduct discharge. This can only be granted through a court martial. Due to the nature of the Army Reserves being part-time, this is not a common occurrence, but it is possible. This type of discharge greatly impacts the benefits that the discharged Soldier may retain and apply for through the VA. This can also greatly impact them when they apply for any job.
On the Veteran’s Affairs website it states that: “A discharge characterized by the military as under honorable conditions is binding on VA and allows for VA to provide benefits if other eligibility requirements are met. If a discharge was not characterized as under honorable conditions, benefits are not payable unless VA determines the discharge was ‘under conditions other than dishonorable.’ By law, certain situations resulting in a discharge under less than honorable conditions constitute a legal bar to the payment of benefits.”
For more on VA benefits and the types of discharges see this link http://www.benefits.va.gov/BENEFITS/docs/COD_Factsheet.pdf
For those who test positive on urinalysis there are two types of “hots” that they can come up on. The first is for illegal drugs and the other is for some type of prescription drug. Illegal drugs are forwarded as a drug demand reduction (DDR) and the paperwork begins to discharge through Chapter 12. For prescription drugs, some commands process it as a Chapter 12 and request any supporting documentation to determine if it is a valid prescription or not. This will allow the packet to go up through the chain of command and it either exonerates the Soldier or starts the separating process as it was not authorized use of prescription drugs. Other commands go through a medical review officer (MRO) where the Soldier is given an opportunity to provide documentation to show that they have a prescription for the drug that they tested for. Based on the documentation, or lack of documentation, there are three types of determination that the MRO can make: 1. Legitimate, 2. Illegitimate, 3. Illegal. Legitimate is those who have a current prescription for the drug that they tested positive for. Illegitimate is if the Soldier has a prescription for the drug, but it is expired. Illegal is if the Soldier did not have a prescription for the drug that they tested positive for.
Once the command is notified of the “hot”, they will sit the Soldier down and read them their Article 32 rights and inform them that they have tested positive and notify them of their options to obtain a lawyer (military at no cost to the Soldier, civilian at no cost to the government), to obtain documentation, administrative hearing (if they have over 6 years in service), and if they want to seek a conditional waiver. They can either invoke these options or waive them. They have 30 days to respond (45 if they have a lawyer). The Company Commander will make a determination of which type of discharge to recommend (they must recommend one) out of the three administrative (honorable, general under honorable conditions, or other than honorable). They will also recommend either retaining or discharging the Soldier and must provide the rationale. The Battalion and Brigade Commanders will either concur or non-concur in their memorandums. Ultimately, the Commanding General will determine to retain or discharge the Soldier and what characterization. If retained, the Soldier can be given a suspended sentence where he/she is given a year of probation so if he/she stays clean and performs honorably, he/she will be retained. If the Soldier tests positive or has any misconduct, the command can send up a vacate packet to discharge the Soldier. If discharged, orders will be cut and the Soldier can appeal the discharge or type of discharge if they so choose.
For non-participants, the notification will be sent out and they are given 30 days to respond (45 if they retain a lawyer) before the Company Commander makes their recommendations and submits the Chapter 13 packet. The rest of the process is similar to the DDR process.
Be familiar with your command, some have default recommendations of reduction to E-1 and other than honorable discharge. Talk to your Battalion Commander and your JAG for advice. You know your Soldiers, so if they are worth fighting for, fight for them, but you have to put that supporting information into your memorandum. At times, this may bite you if you recommended retaining the Solider and they test positive again…so be careful.
Leadership
Discharge
Command Post
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 12
17
17
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I feel that if a service member did not meet the facets of their contract and their Oath, it should be anything but Honorable or General.
If they are non-participant (aka, their give-a-f*ck broke and they couldn't bother their a$$ to attend UTA/AT, etc.) or pop hot on a drug test, they broke their promise. Why should they slink away with an Honorable/General?
If it precludes them from wangling their way into the Government work system to unwitting employers, it is vocational Darwinism. Just my $0.02.
If they are non-participant (aka, their give-a-f*ck broke and they couldn't bother their a$$ to attend UTA/AT, etc.) or pop hot on a drug test, they broke their promise. Why should they slink away with an Honorable/General?
If it precludes them from wangling their way into the Government work system to unwitting employers, it is vocational Darwinism. Just my $0.02.
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PO3 Joseph Wieck
I can see both sides of the fence. There are times that the command/leadership is the issue. I almost got it from my LPO being the type that will set someone up and then frame them for something he did. Happened to me, and I ended up at Captain's Mast. I got lucky in that I screwed up 6 months before and stood right before him and admitted my screw up. Told him I would accept whatever punishment he deemed necessary. He went light. I was able to tell him, that if I was willing to stand up and admit fault with no guarantees in an incident that caused lives to be in danger, why would I not do the same with a guarantee of no punishment and no real harm. The sad part is said LPO went on to become an officer.
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SGT (Join to see)
I don't necessarily agree that a failed drug test should automatically result in an "other than honorable conditions" or worse discharge. I'm one of the rare people nowadays who has never touched an illegal drug -- even experimentally. However, I know that some of the best soldiers I've served with have occasionally smoked weed.
Sometimes, they get caught. Sometimes, they don't. However, it doesn't change my opinion of them. And, there are a few of them who have been put out during periods of overstrength no tolerance where I was like, "You're going to put this guy out, but you're going to keep THAT lazy fatass?!?"
When they're tactically and technically proficient, when they lead their soldiers, when they're otherwise doing everything else right, why should that affect the characterization of their service?
Bear in mind that (on an employment application) an "other than honorable conditions" or worse discharge almost has the same effect as a felony conviction. So, you really have to ask yourself whether someone who has volunteered to put his/her life on the line and who may have completed tours of duty overseas deserves to have that mark on their record because they engaged in an off-duty practice that seems to be fairly common in the civilian sector.
I'm a big proponent of the reflection of total service view.
Sometimes, they get caught. Sometimes, they don't. However, it doesn't change my opinion of them. And, there are a few of them who have been put out during periods of overstrength no tolerance where I was like, "You're going to put this guy out, but you're going to keep THAT lazy fatass?!?"
When they're tactically and technically proficient, when they lead their soldiers, when they're otherwise doing everything else right, why should that affect the characterization of their service?
Bear in mind that (on an employment application) an "other than honorable conditions" or worse discharge almost has the same effect as a felony conviction. So, you really have to ask yourself whether someone who has volunteered to put his/her life on the line and who may have completed tours of duty overseas deserves to have that mark on their record because they engaged in an off-duty practice that seems to be fairly common in the civilian sector.
I'm a big proponent of the reflection of total service view.
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CW5 (Join to see)
Drugs are illegal. Being fat isn't. There is a process for those that don't meet standards just as there are legal processes for those that commit crimes.
That said, sometimes the latitude given to leaders in the process can really mess things up especially in the realm of fairness (i know, life isn't fair)
That said, sometimes the latitude given to leaders in the process can really mess things up especially in the realm of fairness (i know, life isn't fair)
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SSgt (Join to see)
Personally I'd rather have a guy that's smoked some weed legal or not have to pull me out of battle than some fat fuck who can barely make make it back to his desk with his hungry man lunch, not to mention the fact that is a standard that is agreed to as well... Getting a DUI is illegal just the same, people aren't getting dishonorable or other than honorable discharges for that. Not everything is black and white. I think that cases should be looked into more, rather than SOP "you're hot... you're out... good luck ever getting another respectable job in your life"
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Characterization of service recommendation/decision. Some thoughts:
- A characterization of service recommendation or decision is supposed to be a reflection of the service member's total service and not just the event/action that may have started a dismissal action.
- Things to consider in determining the characterization of a service member's total service include but are not limited to: total length of service, total quality of service, increasing levels of responsibility throughout, and other. This lays out the "science" of the recommendation or decision.
- The "art" of the recommendation or decision boils down to experience and judgment since there are no hard/fast rules for each characterization but just general definitions and guidance. Should a 15 year SFC with 3 combat tours receive an OTH for a DUI? Should a 3 year SPC receive an honorable after a hot urinalysis? If these were easy decisions then anybody could do our job. Not everyone can.
- A characterization of service recommendation or decision is supposed to be a reflection of the service member's total service and not just the event/action that may have started a dismissal action.
- Things to consider in determining the characterization of a service member's total service include but are not limited to: total length of service, total quality of service, increasing levels of responsibility throughout, and other. This lays out the "science" of the recommendation or decision.
- The "art" of the recommendation or decision boils down to experience and judgment since there are no hard/fast rules for each characterization but just general definitions and guidance. Should a 15 year SFC with 3 combat tours receive an OTH for a DUI? Should a 3 year SPC receive an honorable after a hot urinalysis? If these were easy decisions then anybody could do our job. Not everyone can.
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I think too often these cases are determined on a single act and the discharge recommendation is also based on that single act and not the entire career - which I believe should stand for something! Before making the discharge recommendation, those responsible for that decision are obliged to look at the big picture.
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