Posted on Nov 4, 2013
SFC Josh Watson
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Female marine with rifle 2
I keep getting these surveys from the TRADOC Analysis Center wanting to know how I "feel" about Females joining combat arms positions, and jobs currently closed to them. Not so sure I believe the Army really cares how I "feel" about the topic and not sure it matters.

This has been an ongoing debate in a couple units I have been in and I'd like to hear something other than: "that's a ridiculous idea", "If they can hack it, let them" and "the sexual harassment/assault rate will go up". I'd like to hear from other branches and females as well. 

So, tell me, what's your take on it?

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Responses: 86
LTC Cavalry Officer
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I believe it will happen very quickly. Inevitable based on our society.
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PO2 Pete Haga
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I wont say it wont happen but I will say it shouldn't happen nothing against female armed forces personnel but these jobs require a special type of person and I don't think females could do what needs to be done in some instances.
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SSgt Forensic Meteorological Consultant
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Some but there are other issues as well and not because one meets the demands does not mean the average lady can.
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SPC David Wyckoff
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Read the OP and read through the comments and a question came to mind. What about an all female Infantry unit?
Seems that the biggest hurdle when trying to integrate female soldiers into Combat Arms is their interaction with males and the possible consequences such as assualt/sexual assault/pregnancy and the non-traditional work/training environment that First Sergeant C. pointed out. But what if the standards were the same? What if the unit was all female? Female NCO's, female Officers, female grunts.

I wasn't Infantry so I don't know how you would integrate that unit with male units in a battlefield assessment. Just throwing it out there to see what others think.
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CPT Public Affairs Officer
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I will admit that I am on the fence about this.

 

As an Engineer, I have seen some Sapper qualified females who were beyond the capability of meeting almost any standard. They were freakin' amazing Soldiers. Conversely, I have seen many who could not meet the standard. The exact same thing could be said for males.

 

Normally, I would have said that if they meet the same standard, then I have no problems with it. However, the USMC sent 20 females through SOI as 0311. 3 graduated on time, 1 was medically rolled to another class, and 80% failed. This has shifted my opinion just a bit. I feel that there must be a vetting process prior to accessions. If you assumed that 20% of an Infantry OSUT Company may be female, to have 80% of them fail would have a negative affect on assignments and strength. It could create major issues. So far, we only have one study to utilize for numbers so we can not assume that 80% would be the standard for failure....but I do think that it shows that we must be aware of the potential for such high numbers of failures and develop some vetting process prior to accessions.

 

The other issue I see is how to inject female leadership at all ranks that will be competent. Learning basic Infantry tasks can be more complex than many give it credit for. To become an expert and a leader at this while coming from a support MOS (since they could not pull female 19D's, 12B's, 13F's, etc...because they don't exist) would be a challenge for anyone. This is where we may have an even larger issue. Just getting competent, well-trained, Infantry-vetted, female leadership in the ranks would need to be addressed as well. I am not certain that reclass and NCOES could accomplish this task. I would not want to transfer into an Infantry Company as a Squad Leader or PSG if I did not have the experience to back it up.

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CPT Public Affairs Officer
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I am sorry that I was not more clear. I was not specifically poking at females, but bringing up the point of how to get female leadership injected into the Infantry. I see an issue when NCOs of any gender reclass and then must step into leadership. I just see it as vital to ensure that females are also brought into leadership roles if there will be junior enlisted females. I can see how a 19D or other combat arms NCO could transition more easily into Infantry, but someone coming from 92Y would experience a much more difficult transition. I feel like this is a good opportunity to establish something to assist with transitioning NCOs so that they are better equipped to step into leadership if they reclass. I can say the same for 12Ns in my unit. An E-6 who has just reclassed will have the same skills as my junior enlisted Soldiers. The only difference is that the E-6 would have more leadership experience. While this experience is valuable, there is something to be said for having experience in your MOS and knowing how to effectively lead those personnel. I am running into these issues with some of my new NCOs right now. It forces leadership to develop them as leaders in their new career field and takes the focus from developing a team that is mission capable.
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SPC Infantryman
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LT, we experienced something to that line in my infantry unit- we had an e5 engineer reclass and come over, though he was immediately placed into a leadership position, his first annual training with us, was almost entirely dedicated to our PSG riding him like a dog, and he never hesitated to ask for help from senior e4's, and he's now an e6 and probably the best squad leader I've ever had
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
SSG V. Michelle Woods
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I completely agree sir. I know several SSGs who reclassed and were automatically put in NCOIC positions fresh out of AIT. One in particular was infantry and reclassed to 42A. He knew very little about how S1 functions. Yet due to his rank and TIS he was automatically put in the NCOIC position and shortly after promoted to SFC. He had SPCs who could run circles around him when it came to HR functions. His mentality was very different too. When he came to the unit he had his Soldiers standing at parade rest for any NCO who walked in the door, which was comical. The shop understood his intent but found it very hard to work while standing with their arms behind their backs lol. Needless to say, he had to learn the difference in a support operations environment versus a line unit.
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CPT Public Affairs Officer
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SPC O'Donnell.....

That is a good success story. Often, many will work hard to accomplish what they need to......even swallowing their pride to ask the questions to those they are leading. However, we also know many stories where the opposite is true.....and they act as though they know everything despite having more than a few shortcomings. 

SGT Woods....

That demonstrates the shortcomings that I am talking about. For Officers, we can get away with not having all the technical knowledge in the World about the functions of the unit (even though I think a good Officer constantly strives to know everything that they can). As generalists, we often must rely heavily on our NCOs to take the plans and vision and make the mission happen. An NCO needs the technical knowledge and experience. AITs typically just give Soldiers a broad view of things and expect the NCOs in the gaining units to train the Soldiers. When the NCO's have the same level of knowledge as a PV2 on the technical aspect of operations, we can see where the problem could be. I would love to see a transitional NCOES for NCO's that reclass for the sake of helping them develop a stronger base of knowledge and experience to work from once assigned to their units. 

Of course, I wish Officers could get more functional courses too. As an Engineer, I went from a Route Clearance unit to a Horizontal unit. I constantly carry a tablet with FMs, ATTPs, PPTs, etc to help me have a reference library at my fingertips. I also love to jump in the equipment and have my E-4's teach me something. It is highly unlikely that I will ever run equipment on a job site, but it is a good time for my Soldiers and I to bond and for them to see that I am willing to be in the trenches with them. 
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SFC Michael Boulanger
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Not only the sexual harassment/assault rate will go up but also the unreported incidents as well.  They, in most cases will be too afraid to tell someone and that will also create a variety of other problems.
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