Posted on Sep 15, 2015
Women in Combat? Give justification WITH regulatory reference.
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FM 3-21.8, 1-1 states: "The Infantry's primary role is close combat, which may occur in any type of mission, in any theater, or environment. Characterized by extreme violence and physiological shock, close combat is callous and unforgiving. Its dimensions are measured in minutes and meters, and its consequences are final. Close combat stresses every aspect of the physical, mental, and spiritual features of the human dimension. To this end, Infantrymen are specially selected, trained, and led."
The Marine Corps recently did a study with proof that women, on average, are more prone to injury, and less accurate with infantry weapons. This type of study is one of many with an actual reasoning behind "no women in combat".
Whether you are for it or against it, give us a reason, but back it up. When it involves the military, it involves Regulations!
The Marine Corps recently did a study with proof that women, on average, are more prone to injury, and less accurate with infantry weapons. This type of study is one of many with an actual reasoning behind "no women in combat".
Whether you are for it or against it, give us a reason, but back it up. When it involves the military, it involves Regulations!
Infantry
Combat
Women in the Military
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 7
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The complete study of the USMC Integration Test has not been released as yet. We have seen a summary, but quoting 2 pages out of the document is "cherry picking" data to say the least. The full document may or may not have additional data which supports or contradicts it.
Additionally there may be additional factors which HQMC is considering in light of the integration testing such as additional TTP (Tactics, Techniques, & Procedures) which were not included in the summary.
But the question as stated is irrelevant. Women already exist in Combat. Combat is something that happens whether you want it or not.
The question I assume you mean to ask is Women in Combat Arms, and to what extent.
As for the USMC, since we field several MOS down to the MEU level, and all Marines go through Combat Training with ITB, MCT, or TBS, we already have the ability to field when down to the smallest MAGTF, and to the smallest GCE (Ground Combat Element) of the MAGTF.
We're able to do it now. We just don't "billet" females to the MEU level, as a matter of current policy. But almost all MOS, excluding CA are already open. Even if we didn't open those, we could still have women in the GCE within a year (Admin, Intel, Logistics, Corpsman, etc)
Additionally there may be additional factors which HQMC is considering in light of the integration testing such as additional TTP (Tactics, Techniques, & Procedures) which were not included in the summary.
But the question as stated is irrelevant. Women already exist in Combat. Combat is something that happens whether you want it or not.
The question I assume you mean to ask is Women in Combat Arms, and to what extent.
As for the USMC, since we field several MOS down to the MEU level, and all Marines go through Combat Training with ITB, MCT, or TBS, we already have the ability to field when down to the smallest MAGTF, and to the smallest GCE (Ground Combat Element) of the MAGTF.
We're able to do it now. We just don't "billet" females to the MEU level, as a matter of current policy. But almost all MOS, excluding CA are already open. Even if we didn't open those, we could still have women in the GCE within a year (Admin, Intel, Logistics, Corpsman, etc)
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
Sgt Tom Cunnally Unknown. It really depends on the the recommendations. But to do the Force Indoc, I think you need that 03xx mos iirc.
But that doesn't necessarily mean women will be excluded from MARSOC, though.
I did "cool things" as an intel analyst, and those commands are going to need comm guys, etc as well as grunts. If I'm not mistaken the Ground Intel Officer (0203) is still open to females for the IOC course, and that grants a secondary 0302 MOS, which presents possibilities.
But until the report and CMC recommendation comes out, we just don't know. It's all conjecture. He may have specific ideas to make it work. He may say something crazy. Who knows.
But that doesn't necessarily mean women will be excluded from MARSOC, though.
I did "cool things" as an intel analyst, and those commands are going to need comm guys, etc as well as grunts. If I'm not mistaken the Ground Intel Officer (0203) is still open to females for the IOC course, and that grants a secondary 0302 MOS, which presents possibilities.
But until the report and CMC recommendation comes out, we just don't know. It's all conjecture. He may have specific ideas to make it work. He may say something crazy. Who knows.
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Sgt Tom Cunnally
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS - I'm going to hazard a guess and say the Marines will not allow women in Force Recon... So we can revisit this in a few weeks and see if I was correct or not...
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COL Ted Mc
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS - Sergeant; A friend of mine is three inches shorter than me and weighs 10 pounds more than I do (giving him a BMI of 29.0). Neither his body shape or condition nor mine have changed since we were in active service.
He was SF because he had qualifications that they needed. I wasn't posted to SF because I had no real interest in eating snakes.
He was SF because he had qualifications that they needed. I wasn't posted to SF because I had no real interest in eating snakes.
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MSG (Join to see)
CAN'T CUT THE MUSTARD - Redonkulas.com
There's talk of lowering the physical standards in order for women to enter frontline combat, so Popp takes a look at the tests from the Center for Military ...
comedy lecture on woman in combat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9zp6kyIcWo
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Here's what's currently on the "books" for the Army, AR 600-13, Assignment of Female Personnel.
"1–12. Overall policy for the female soldier
a . The Army's assignment policy for female Soldiers allows
women to serve in any officer or enlisted specialty or position
except in those specialties, positions, or units (battalion size or
smaller) which are assigned a routine mission to engage in direct
combat, or which collocate routinely with units assigned a direct
combat mission."
This hasn't accurately reflected the actual role of women in combat environments since the first MPs were sent to patrol Iraq in mid-2003.
Edit: To further expand on that, last I heard this regulation was being revised. It has sorely needed updates, and the Army is up in the air, regulation-wise, until the new policy is published. However, it has seemed to have been "in the works" for about four years now. I'm not sure if the snag was with statistics, or somewhere at the Pentagon, or what.
"1–12. Overall policy for the female soldier
a . The Army's assignment policy for female Soldiers allows
women to serve in any officer or enlisted specialty or position
except in those specialties, positions, or units (battalion size or
smaller) which are assigned a routine mission to engage in direct
combat, or which collocate routinely with units assigned a direct
combat mission."
This hasn't accurately reflected the actual role of women in combat environments since the first MPs were sent to patrol Iraq in mid-2003.
Edit: To further expand on that, last I heard this regulation was being revised. It has sorely needed updates, and the Army is up in the air, regulation-wise, until the new policy is published. However, it has seemed to have been "in the works" for about four years now. I'm not sure if the snag was with statistics, or somewhere at the Pentagon, or what.
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CAN'T CUT THE MUSTARD - Redonkulas.com
There's talk of lowering the physical standards in order for women to enter frontline combat, so Popp takes a look at the tests from the Center for Military ...
comedy lecture on woman in combat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9zp6kyIcWo
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