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Every day I log onto RallyPoint to see Officers, NCOs, and
Soldiers complaining about living up to the standard. We have all seen the posts about how important a 300 is then many long time NCOs chime in about how the Army standard is 180 and if that is the standard than it is good enough. Then we have hundreds of posts about how the weight control program sucks and I weigh too much and it’s not fair. Leaders and Soldiers thinking that just
because you know a little something about your job you shouldn’t have to meet that standard. There are a few posts discussing how a 110 GT score is too high and we should lower it because people are not good at tests. Then I have seen posts of people thinking that striving for distinguished honor grad and commandants list are not all that important.
I know some people are going to say things about PT doesn’t mean anything if you know your job, or if your PT is good body fat standard shouldn’t matter, or any of the other hundred reasons people have for under achievement and condoning it in their Soldiers.
My basic question is since when did just passing, barely meeting the standard or wanting the standards to drop to you instead of striving to be better become the way we do business. Is it just me? Am I the only one who sees this?
BLUF: Either you are trying to excel and not just meet the standard but far exceed it. Or…. You are just coasting by doing the bare minimum and are a detriment to our force.
I know some people are going to say things about PT doesn’t mean anything if you know your job, or if your PT is good body fat standard shouldn’t matter, or any of the other hundred reasons people have for under achievement and condoning it in their Soldiers.
My basic question is since when did just passing, barely meeting the standard or wanting the standards to drop to you instead of striving to be better become the way we do business. Is it just me? Am I the only one who sees this?
BLUF: Either you are trying to excel and not just meet the standard but far exceed it. Or…. You are just coasting by doing the bare minimum and are a detriment to our force.
Standards
APFT
NCOES
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 49
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Honestly, I'm on the opposite side of the fence. I think we place way too much emphasis on PT and HT/WT. For most personnel, their ability to run, do push ups, sit ups, etc. is completely irrelevant to their duties, to include while deployed. I could not care less what that admin clerks run time is. Can he do his job? Same with most every other MOS. Tactical and Technical proficiency are the two most important, but least mentioned variables.<div><br></div><div>A PT program is fine. I acknowledge we should be fit, but let's bring back MOS testing. That's MUCH more important than your ability to run or do push ups.</div><div><br></div><div>The military of the future needs intelligent, logical, critical thinkers. Brains are far outpacing brawn in relevance and importance.</div>
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LTC Mark Gavula
Why can't one be intelligent, logical and critical thinkers and score high on the APFT? I was reading another RP discussion about the USMC Corps having more discipline and espirit, and I have the impression that the ARMY NCOs are inferior to the USMC NCOs. When I was a PL, I challenged my Troopers to set their goals high on the APFT as well as other tasks such as marksmanship, tank gunnery. IT was healthy competition against a standard. Then you had crews competing against crews, sections against sections, platoons against platoons. What is wrong with that? There will always be those individuals who will be promoted and not be as technically proficient as someone else. The Army takes a holistic approach to evaluating Soldiers. If the less technically Soldier is being promoted ahead of a Soldier who is more technically proficient than why not look at the rater and senior rater of that Soldier. They failed in their duties to develop a that Soldier, did not conduct monthly counseling sessions with that Soldier and did not have the courage to evaluate the Soldier honestly. What does this boil down too? Leadership or the lack of leadership. Stop bitching about the system, making excuses and lead Soldier from the front. Soldiers want to be challenged. Finally, PT is good for your health.
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PFC Eric Minchey
I agree, The ability to run long distances quickly and do many push-ups or sit-ups is confused for intelligence, leadership potential & degree of motivation too often in the military.
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MSG Daniel Talley
Comments. However if his/her base be over run could the admin clerk perform strenuous tasks of shoot move communicate?
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If 180 is the standard, then that is the standard (and remember, "standard" means the minimum that EVERYONE must meet). 300 is a good goal to strive for, but it is not the standard. If we thought everyone could or more importantly should score 300, then why is that not the standard instead....? The bar has to be set somewhere and it has to be realistic.
I think what is more important is the individual is expert at doing their job. For an infantryman, scoring a 300 on their APFT may very well be part of being expert at doing their job. But remember, not everyone is an infantryman and does not need the competencies that infantrymen need.
I think what is more important is the individual is expert at doing their job. For an infantryman, scoring a 300 on their APFT may very well be part of being expert at doing their job. But remember, not everyone is an infantryman and does not need the competencies that infantrymen need.
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SSG John Erny
LTC Paul Labrador, That is true sir, they have their own Unique SOP and train every one to be an 11B if needed. It happened to me, Operation Just Cause.
Search for "composite platoon"
http://www.history.army.mil/documents/panama/JCIT/JCIT77.htm
Search for "composite platoon"
http://www.history.army.mil/documents/panama/JCIT/JCIT77.htm
DR. WRIGHT: O.K., this is an Operation JUST CAUSE interview being conducted on 29 May 1990, in the Headquarters of the Third Battalion 504th Infantry at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. The interviewing official is Dr. Robert K. Wright, Jr., the XVIII Airborne Corps historian. And sir, if I could get you to start off with giving me your full name, rank and serial number?
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Okay, so here is my view on things. THIS IS A DISCUSSION FORUM. People have different views. In most of comments provided do not say "accept 180". I for one think that a 250 APFT score is just as good as a 300 if the tester busted his/her butt on the field. What about weapons qualification? Do you shoot 40 out of 40 every time? No but that doesn't mean you didn't try. Did you max out your promotion points before pinning on E6? Probably not but that doesn't mean you accepted the bear minimum; you probably busted your butt to reach the cut off.<div><br></div><div>So I don't see how people can sit there and say others are accepting to be mediocre because they don't agree that every leader should score a 300 on the APFT or get 40 out of 40 on their primary weapon or max out their promotion points. </div>
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