Posted on Oct 31, 2014
CPT Platoon Leader
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Uniform
The day I turned my chevrons in for gold bars I noticed something. All the officers I've ever seen never wore marksmanship badges in dress uniforms. I just assumed they were unauthorized for officers and removed it voluntarily. I honestly never desired to wear the badge (probably because I was only ever a sharpshooter), but I haven't found any documentation specifically preventing officers from wearing them. Do you think officers should wear them?
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Responses: 770
SFC Scott VanKerkvoorde
14
14
0
Having spent 10 years as a Marine and 14 as a soldier, I can say this is one way that the two services differ greatly. In the Marine Corps, when a uniform is prescribed for uniform of the day, an event or occasion, it is accompanied by specifics, i.e. service A uniform with ribbons and badges. As such, all Marines would wear them. I never noticed Army officers not wearing them until this posting. While shooting Expert in either branch is an excellent accomplishment, anyone who has had a bad day on the range can attest that shooting Marksman is also a qualification worth displaying. Marksmanship is a skill we all have in common and one I feel should be shown proudly.
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CW3 Harvey K.
CW3 Harvey K.
>1 y
Maj Ken Brown - I know how you felt, Major. I fired a 224 with the M-1 at Parris Island.
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Maj Ken Brown
Maj Ken Brown
>1 y
CW3 Harvey K. - Gunner: I've actually fired an M-1 once, but I qualified with an M-14. This marks you as "old school". Kudos.
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CW3 Harvey K.
CW3 Harvey K.
>1 y
Maj Ken Brown - Thank you, Major. The highest compliment I was ever paid was to be addressed as "Gunner" by a Marine sentry at Quantico. I thanked him for that honor, and I thank you also.
I just missed the M-14 in my hiatus as a civilian between the Corps and the Army, going from M-1 to M-16. I did catch up to it when I was on the rifle team, firing a National Match M-14.
Yep, I'm "old school". I'll take the place of an old Warrant I served with and say, as he used to say, "I was a drummer boy for George Washington".
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TSgt Ray Lewis
TSgt Ray Lewis
>1 y
Maj Ken Brown - I got my Distinguished Rifle Badge with a Bronze Leg, a Silver Leg and a Gold Leg. All with an M-1 and placed 3rd at Camp Perry in 64 with an M-1.
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CW4 Scott Hyde
14
14
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I do believe it is because most officers cannot shoot so rather than having to explain a marksman badge to the private who nailed a 40 out of 40 on the last range, you just do not wear them. At least that is the story I tell at the range after qualifying expert so I do what I can to motivate the officers in my unit to qualify on their third or fourth attempt. Motivation is important.
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CW4 Scott Hyde
CW4 Scott Hyde
>1 y
1LT Rich Voss - I guess I should put the following statement at the head of each of my comments "Warning! Sacrasm to follow."
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1LT Rich Voss
1LT Rich Voss
>1 y
OK Chief ! Good one. One of my better buddies in Germany was our Brigade Commanders helicopter pilot. Was a CW2 when I first got there in '67. He left for his second tour in 'Nam in '69 and when I went back to visit my in-laws in '75, he was right back there (in Germany) as a CW3. I was amazed, to say the least. He said that after each tour in 'Nam he got to precisely pick his next duty station. He had done three in Bamberg at that point. He'd say " I love this place and know everybody here". Wonder how he's doing...lost track of so many guys over the years.
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CW4 Craig Urban
CW4 Craig Urban
>1 y
I can. M14/m16/38/45
I ran the arms room as a W01
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LTC Christopher Hills
LTC Christopher Hills
>1 y
That could be chief, but was not the case in the airborne and special ops world i served in. I was expert and expected those around me to ne as well. This is NOT a hard skill to master but is the most important when you come under fire. But, i was OCS and we were all taught to be infantry and than branched needs of army afterwArds.
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LtCol Mac McCarty
14
14
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I don't even know how to respond to this. Sounds to me like a lot of "I can't do it, and I don't want any officers who can to show me up for what I am--just a guy in a pretty soldier suit wearing a bunch of pretty patches." How can a leader look a soldier in the eye? Every Marine has a right to know if his officers can perform the single most important task of the warrior--kill the enemy with everything from bare hands to nukes, but especially aimed, killing rifle fire at maximum range. It is just one more of those things that we all do together that makes us Marines.
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Cpl Debbie Dave LaVallie
Cpl Debbie Dave LaVallie
>1 y
Exactly on point Sir, the Warrior ethos is imbued in everything we do, whether commissioned or enlisted.
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Col Jonathan Brazee
13
13
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Edited >1 y ago
77c8d8db
As a Marine officer, I wore my rifle and pistol badges for my entire 30 years.
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Capt Lance Gallardo
Capt Lance Gallardo
6 y
Urah!
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LtCol Bruce Janis
LtCol Bruce Janis
>1 y
Shot expert with rifle and pistol, I see. Good to go…TBS 9/68.
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CW5 Jack Cardwell
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10
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I ran many a pistol range for qualification. Our Enlisted who were issued pistols, no problems. Warrants no problem. O grade offices, scary with a few exceptions.
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SSG Jimmy Cernich
SSG Jimmy Cernich
>1 y
Had one that really scared me.Pointing at people, jammed up pistol all the time, couldn't hit nothing.They let him deploy too with bolo stats,I was like give me a break,can we get a new one.
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COL John Cuddy
10
10
0
I am retired now, but as an Infantry Officer I felt that it was important to be very proficient with my assigned individual weapons and always wore my marksmanship badges just like I expected my soldiers to wear theirs. At some point in my career I switched my annual qualification badges with Excellence in Competition (EIC) badges - silver in rifle and bronze in pistol. Officers who didn't wear theirs and used the excuse of "officers should be expert in everything" generally weren't experts in much including shooting their assigned weapon. Officers who said its tradition not to wear them as an officer - I always thought that was an adequate answer since the regs generally state they are authorized for wear, not mandatory.
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MAJ Fred Peterman
MAJ Fred Peterman
>1 y
Have never had the opportunity to compete for "leg points". Wrong place, wrong time.
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MAJ Brad Herzog
10
10
0
I always thought that officers not wearing weapons skill badges was a mistake by the Army in general. The points made about "the officers job is to lead not fire his weapon" is hollow and sounds like some kind of stuffy British Army bs. The Army talks warrior culture doesn't follow through. Infantry, Rangers, and SF officers fight, shoot AND communicate. Combat is a full contact event, not some neat tidy white paper theory. Shooting skill is no indication of officer ability, no more than how shiny your boots are, how short your hair is, or how fast you run. But soldiers like to know their leaders have skills they can see. And shooting skill is one that can be displayed with the shooting badges. Good on MG Miller to emphasize shooting proficiency for the new Infantry LT's. I'll note that MG Miller is a former Delta commander and understands the value of shooting skill by all members of the team. The Army, and especially the combat arms branches, would be well served to emulate the USMC model that every one is fundamentally a rifleman work forward from that point. To answer the original question No, there is no regulation prohibiting officers wearing shooting badges they are qualified for. I for one encourage it. After all "It ain't bragging if you can do it!"
Brad Herzog
SF, ret.
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LTC John Bush
LTC John Bush
3 y
I was commissioned in 62 and things seem to have really changed. I and the officers in my battalion expected to qualify expert on their individual weapon and took all the proficiency tests along with our soldiers, mortars, machine guns etc. It was important our men knew we knew the job at every level and knew what we were talking about. I remember during a training exercise when an explosive failed to detonate the OIC said we need someone that can hit the detonator and one of my soldiers said " the lieutenant can do it" and I did. Your men should have that kind of confidence if you expect them to whatever come up without question. I just hope most of this commentary did not come from infantry officers. I do not care how well an Armor officer shoots a rifle but how he qualified with his tank and the same for an Artillery officer. Anyone talking about "managing" the battle was not on the ground in TET 68!
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LtCol Bruce Janis
LtCol Bruce Janis
>1 y
Shooting skills don’t matter until the bad guys are coming through the wire. Then those officers issued a weapon they forgot how to use will have a “come to Jesus” moment.
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CW4 Edmund Parowski
10
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They want to avoid the embarrassment of everyone seeing that their enlisted troops shoot better than they do, especially when they don't do anything particularly well. But, yeah..let's call it tradition.
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1LT Rich Voss
1LT Rich Voss
>1 y
Nope. They didn't and don't, my former enlisted troops that is. My platoon sergeant did outshoot my crew during tank crew qualification course, but he "cherry picked" his guys & I got the, lets say, "underachievers". None of the TCs could out shoot me with our sidearm, that being a Colt M1911A1. We had fun with our personal pistols, they with Mausers, Lugers, and Walthers, and me with a British Webley. Yes, I'm a big guy and I like larger caliber hand guns. I also qualified expert on the M60 machinegun back when I was a "lowly" draftee.
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CPT Ahmed Faried
10
10
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Generally speaking it is assumed that Officers will already be experts and as such the display of it is unnecessary. This isn't the case with all units but in all the line companies I was in and even in the Heavy Weapons company at the 10th Mountain all the officers shot expert. In my first platoon I was the worst shot at 36. We even had a competition put on by General Townsend and my Weapons Company at the time outshot all other companies in the division. There is no specific regulation that I know of that prevents an Officer from wearing it however, so if you desire to do so go nuts. Just expect the occasional head swivel here and there.
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CW3 Harvey K.
CW3 Harvey K.
>1 y
It is most unfortunate that "it is assumed that Officers will already be experts and as such the display of it is unnecessary" is so often a false assumption. By removing the "evidence" of marksmanship badges from an officer's uniform, it only adds to the suspicion of incompetence in that skill.
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Sgt Tammy Wallace
Sgt Tammy Wallace
>1 y
That assumption just isn't so in the Marine Corps...As a PMI, I've had my fair share of officers on my range...I've thrown a few off too as well :)
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CPT Ahmed Faried
CPT Ahmed Faried
>1 y
perhaps i should have clarified that in my experience the assumption was directed more towards combat arms.
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LTC Charles Bonnell
8
8
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I wore mine. As an officer, I figured the Soldiers and NCOs would like to know that I qualified expert on a number of weapons. Kinda hard to be the example if you can't set the example.
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1LT Rich Voss
1LT Rich Voss
>1 y
Indeed, Colonel. I did as well. Most of mine I got while still enlisted, once I became a tank officer there weren't to many other weapons to qualify with. Basically tank and .45 cal pistol. I'd have liked to seen my unit qualify with that darned old "grease-gun" we had in our tanks, but we only did "fam" firing with that. Burp, it did !
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