Posted on Oct 31, 2019
Where would one look to dispute an event-oriented counseling for an event prior to an initial counseling?
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Where would one look to dispute an event oriented counseling for an event prior to an initial counseling?
I have thumbed through relevant regulations, but have not found anything definitive. It is commonly believed that you cannot be negatively counseled until your initial is complete but where is this written? Looking for a solid rule and not a technique such as in an ATP.
I have thumbed through relevant regulations, but have not found anything definitive. It is commonly believed that you cannot be negatively counseled until your initial is complete but where is this written? Looking for a solid rule and not a technique such as in an ATP.
Counseling
Professional Development
Army Regulations
Posted 5 y ago
Responses: 11
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Counseling is not a reprimand. It's not a punitive action. It's not a negative action.
It's not an accusation, admittance of guilt, or precursor for administrative punishment. A counseling statement does not have any legal or administrative power, it is just a record of events.
A counseling statement is a written documentation by the counselor that you were informed of something. Basically, it is a memorandum for record that a conversation happened. Nothing more.
You can be counseled at any time for any thing. Literally, any two words that the counselor wants to record that they informed you of. There are certain times that counseling is required by regulation or policy. Such as when your ETS date is changed, when you're admitted to a MEB, or when you're flagged or barred. There is no regulation anywhere that says you are not allowed to document a conversation with a Soldier.
It's not an accusation, admittance of guilt, or precursor for administrative punishment. A counseling statement does not have any legal or administrative power, it is just a record of events.
A counseling statement is a written documentation by the counselor that you were informed of something. Basically, it is a memorandum for record that a conversation happened. Nothing more.
You can be counseled at any time for any thing. Literally, any two words that the counselor wants to record that they informed you of. There are certain times that counseling is required by regulation or policy. Such as when your ETS date is changed, when you're admitted to a MEB, or when you're flagged or barred. There is no regulation anywhere that says you are not allowed to document a conversation with a Soldier.
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You can be counseled at anytime. Counseling prior to an initial , should be as warnings for violations. The only thing the initial does is to inform you of the expectations and grading scheme of the counselor.
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You won’t find it because it doesn’t exist. The way to dispute an event oriented counseling is to demonstrate the event didn’t happen.
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SSG (Join to see)
what if the event did happen and it was interpreted to be negative solely for the purpose of establishing a pattern of misconduct when there is none?
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MSG Gary Eckert
SSG (Join to see) I am having a hard time imagining an event that could be interpreted in a negative light and be misconduct or in a positive manner where it would not be misconduct. Regardless, initial counseling sets performance expectations. It wouldn’t occur to me include telling an NCO to not commit misconduct during that conversation.
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SSG Brian G.
SSG (Join to see) - Ok, you are saying the event did happen, so there is no dispute. It was simply how the person writing the counseling chose to view it. You got counseled on the event. The thing about counselings is that YOU might not view it the same as your counselor. Hence why the SM is provided a block to disagree and offer a rebuttal as to the events. The counselor does not get a say whether you do or do not utilize this. But be careful in your wording.
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SGM (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see) - A counseling statement does not establish a pattern of misconduct, a Soldier does that. The counseling is intended to prevent the Soldier from establishing a pattern of misconduct.
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