Posted on Sep 16, 2020
When given rights by an E-5, can an E-4 (not promotable) give corrective training (aka. smoke) to another E-4?
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I've seen where an E-4 (not promotable yet) give a corrective training(aks. smoke) another E-4 (also not promotable yet) for over 30 minutes saying they were given a right by an E-5 to do so for them.
I was wondering if that is within a regulation
I was wondering if that is within a regulation
Posted in these groups: 
Corrective Training
Corrective Training
Posted 4 y ago
Responses: 6
If the first SPC is in a designated Leadership position, then by general military authority, yes that SPC can assign corrective training to another SPC. Giving a Counseling statement and assigning a corrective action such as an essay, sure. However, my concern is that if the first SPC is NOT in a leadership position, then being delegated by a SGT to conduct a smoke session has a hinky feel to it. So many questions run thru my head on this one.
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MSG (Join to see)
SSG Robert Perrotto - And that is the reason of the hinky feeling and many questions in my head
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SSG Robert Perrotto
MSG (Join to see) - Honest opinion, if the infraction was enough to warrant a 30 minute smoke session, then it should have been put on paper to begin with, with corrective measure outlined and fitting to what the infraction was in the plan of action section. If what the OP is saying is true event, then I have some serious questions in regards to the NCO who authorized this.
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CSM William Everroad
I would argue that a smoke session should not be delegated. There are so many nuances to when that is appropriate as a measure of corrective action, it would be unreasonable to expect an E4 to have the knowledge or experience to execute the training without crossing a line.
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Given a right? What does that even mean? Do you mean a NCO delegated a junior enlisted to perform a corrective training action?
This is what AR 600-20 states about military authority using exercise as corrective training:
4–6. Exercising military authority
(1) The training or instruction given to a Soldier to correct deficiencies must be appropriately tailored to curing the deficiency. It must be oriented to improving the Soldier’s performance in their problem area. Brief physical exercises are an acceptable form of corrective training for minor acts of indiscipline (for example, requiring the Soldier to do push-ups for arriving late to formation), so long as it does not violate the Army’s policies prohibiting hazing, bullying, and unlawful punishment.
If that SPC is not in any type of leadership position, I'd probably have just ignored them if I was the other SPC they were "smoking." I'd probably go tell the PSG that he/she has a lazy NCO that doesn't want to do his or her job. 30 min smoke session seem to violate that - especially if it had nothing to do with the action needing corrected.
There's not enough information presented to really give a great answer but that NCO sounds like they're lazy - and "smoking" soldiers really isn't allowed anymore.
This is what AR 600-20 states about military authority using exercise as corrective training:
4–6. Exercising military authority
(1) The training or instruction given to a Soldier to correct deficiencies must be appropriately tailored to curing the deficiency. It must be oriented to improving the Soldier’s performance in their problem area. Brief physical exercises are an acceptable form of corrective training for minor acts of indiscipline (for example, requiring the Soldier to do push-ups for arriving late to formation), so long as it does not violate the Army’s policies prohibiting hazing, bullying, and unlawful punishment.
If that SPC is not in any type of leadership position, I'd probably have just ignored them if I was the other SPC they were "smoking." I'd probably go tell the PSG that he/she has a lazy NCO that doesn't want to do his or her job. 30 min smoke session seem to violate that - especially if it had nothing to do with the action needing corrected.
There's not enough information presented to really give a great answer but that NCO sounds like they're lazy - and "smoking" soldiers really isn't allowed anymore.
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WTF??? 30 minute smoke session from one E4 to another???? It would never happen in the Corps. If you make someone do push ups, you do it with them. At least that was the way is was in my day.
I'm not sure of the regs, but incentive training, smoke sessions or whatever it is being called is rarely an effective method of training. Rethink your methodology. Train them to be a good soldier by setting the example. If the soldier is deficient, train them specifically on that deficiency. Otherwise you are just getting them stronger for the day they decide to break your jaw.
I'm not sure of the regs, but incentive training, smoke sessions or whatever it is being called is rarely an effective method of training. Rethink your methodology. Train them to be a good soldier by setting the example. If the soldier is deficient, train them specifically on that deficiency. Otherwise you are just getting them stronger for the day they decide to break your jaw.
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SGT (Join to see)
That is the same as in the US Army infantry. You do the push ups with them. Lead by example!! GySgt Kenneth Pepper
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