Posted on Feb 12, 2021
What should local leadership (division officers through the commanding officer) be doing to fight active duty suicide and depression?
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When the Navy cancelled NKO requirements for training (i.e., made it so local commands could write, deliver, and track training as they see fit), the purpose was to remove administrative distractions and improve leader engagement.
A couple of weeks later, I was standing at quarters in front of my division when one of my leading chief petty officers began passing around clipboards. Each was filled with a stack of PowerPoint printouts and an attached muster sheet. He told the Sailors to look through the printed slides during quarters and check next to their name on the muster that they had received training. It suddenly occurred to me that his intention was to collect the muster sheets and add them to our binder in the office as record of training conducted. Among these presentations was a set of slides on suicide prevention and awareness.
I was beside myself. There was even a spot for me to check that I had received the training, too. Instead of seeing the naval message as a chance to IMPROVE our training — to develop our engagement with the division on these issues — he saw it as a chance to throw it away. To him, this stuff had just been a big waste of time anyway, and he literally turned it into a check in the box.
Every time a Sailor commits suicide or updated military suicide data is released, I see online forums like "Shit My LPO Says" and "Decelerate My Life" immediately talk about how it's a failure from leadership at all levels. Many also immediately claim that the suicide was due, at least in part, to toxic leadership present at the local levels. Yet I've also seen these same Sailors gossip about people who self-report depression as "sadding out" just to get out of work, training, or contracts. So I take some umbrage at laying the blame on leadership, and yet I've clearly seen shipboard leadership drop the ball HARD.
Assuming these online Sailors are right, what should leaders be doing to improve the situation? Or is it crazy to tell shipboard leadership to stop a person from killing themselves? Is it even more crazy to immediately assume that the REASON they committed suicide was the military's "toxic workplace environment"?
A couple of weeks later, I was standing at quarters in front of my division when one of my leading chief petty officers began passing around clipboards. Each was filled with a stack of PowerPoint printouts and an attached muster sheet. He told the Sailors to look through the printed slides during quarters and check next to their name on the muster that they had received training. It suddenly occurred to me that his intention was to collect the muster sheets and add them to our binder in the office as record of training conducted. Among these presentations was a set of slides on suicide prevention and awareness.
I was beside myself. There was even a spot for me to check that I had received the training, too. Instead of seeing the naval message as a chance to IMPROVE our training — to develop our engagement with the division on these issues — he saw it as a chance to throw it away. To him, this stuff had just been a big waste of time anyway, and he literally turned it into a check in the box.
Every time a Sailor commits suicide or updated military suicide data is released, I see online forums like "Shit My LPO Says" and "Decelerate My Life" immediately talk about how it's a failure from leadership at all levels. Many also immediately claim that the suicide was due, at least in part, to toxic leadership present at the local levels. Yet I've also seen these same Sailors gossip about people who self-report depression as "sadding out" just to get out of work, training, or contracts. So I take some umbrage at laying the blame on leadership, and yet I've clearly seen shipboard leadership drop the ball HARD.
Assuming these online Sailors are right, what should leaders be doing to improve the situation? Or is it crazy to tell shipboard leadership to stop a person from killing themselves? Is it even more crazy to immediately assume that the REASON they committed suicide was the military's "toxic workplace environment"?
Suicide
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Edited 4 y ago
Posted 4 y ago
Responses: 15
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Brief History of Punishment by Flogging in the US Navy
Warnings against the excessive use of flogging were written as early as 1797 by Captain Thomas Truxtun and in 1808 by Surgeon Edward Cutbush. A proposal to abolish flogging was first introduced in Congress in 1820 by Representative Samuel Foot, but it was unsuccessful. Congressman Foot was the father of Andrew Hull Foote, who was later an admiral in the Civil War. In 1831 Secretary of the Navy Levi Woodbury issued an order that said until...
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I’m an opinionated old guy. I’m 79 and my background was Army for active duty and Air Force for civil service. I’ll presume to offer a few ideas to think about:
1. Active military service is tough on families. Really tough. It’s tough on the spouse, it’s tough on their kids, their parents, their friends,...everyone in their lives pays a price in one way or another for the member to serve on active duty in the US armed forces.
2. The military member is usually oblivious to the hardship those people endure. It’s not callousness, it’s simply ignorance. As my first boss used to say (when I was a “spook trainee” prior to my Army enlistment to dodge the draft), “Ignorance is curable but stupid is bone-deep.”
3. Communication between the military member and those closest to him is very difficult. The language they all use to express themselves is all different, with military slang having to be translated at every breath and security classification compounding the problem of communication.
4. Deployments of military members causes unexpected problems for the families. The spouse has to try to keep the household functioning as usual for the benefit of the kids and take over all household responsibilities so there are no gaps in financial coverage for any member of the family.
5. The stress on the family relationships.can cause depression, feelings of hopelessness, and finally surrender to the inevitable.
As I as a young Army lieutenant in Viet Nam used to say, “A single gunshot in the middle of the night can only have been fired by a woman from a range of 10,000 miles.”
1. Active military service is tough on families. Really tough. It’s tough on the spouse, it’s tough on their kids, their parents, their friends,...everyone in their lives pays a price in one way or another for the member to serve on active duty in the US armed forces.
2. The military member is usually oblivious to the hardship those people endure. It’s not callousness, it’s simply ignorance. As my first boss used to say (when I was a “spook trainee” prior to my Army enlistment to dodge the draft), “Ignorance is curable but stupid is bone-deep.”
3. Communication between the military member and those closest to him is very difficult. The language they all use to express themselves is all different, with military slang having to be translated at every breath and security classification compounding the problem of communication.
4. Deployments of military members causes unexpected problems for the families. The spouse has to try to keep the household functioning as usual for the benefit of the kids and take over all household responsibilities so there are no gaps in financial coverage for any member of the family.
5. The stress on the family relationships.can cause depression, feelings of hopelessness, and finally surrender to the inevitable.
As I as a young Army lieutenant in Viet Nam used to say, “A single gunshot in the middle of the night can only have been fired by a woman from a range of 10,000 miles.”
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In my 26 years, military and Civil Service association with the Officer Cadre I can honestly state I have known six officers that actually was aware that they were responsible for the moral and welfare of the troops under their command. Most officers arfed too busy stab bing each other in the back to gain a promotion.
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Naval disciple, a short introduction to punishment of sailors and marines by flogging.
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Brief History of Punishment by Flogging in the US Navy
Warnings against the excessive use of flogging were written as early as 1797 by Captain Thomas Truxtun and in 1808 by Surgeon Edward Cutbush. A proposal to abolish flogging was first introduced in Congress in 1820 by Representative Samuel Foot, but it was unsuccessful. Congressman Foot was the father of Andrew Hull Foote, who was later an admiral in the Civil War. In 1831 Secretary of the Navy Levi Woodbury issued an order that said until...
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PO3 Aaron Hassay
Naval disciple, a short introduction to punishment of sailors and marines by flogging.
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PO3 Aaron Hassay
There is something here. Humans destroy each other in ways that create laws to protect against such. Human rights etc. The Justice System the Judicial System seams to be based on this. The Judicial system is one of the 3 branches of gov you swore an oath to defend in the Constitution. Read the Constitution Preamble! You swore an oath to defend it against enemies.
You should look at the Russian Bootcamp experience as google YouTube will show. It is kicks in the body and worse. Well is that who we are trying to be ready to defend against in a full out war?? I think we are better built being friendly to each other as a team ready to well defend against anything.
What do I mean?
I was a reserve enlisted assigned to an active duty guided missile frigate for 5 years from e2 to e4. It was like a minnow in a shark tank. I did not know much. It changed my life
I found out my father was. Vietnam combat Vet Infantry Army 66-68. Agent Orange in the jungle just even for a few years would well stop his ability to raise his young fam.
I will say this. We should all be asking each other how are you doing??? and more then once.
You should look at the Russian Bootcamp experience as google YouTube will show. It is kicks in the body and worse. Well is that who we are trying to be ready to defend against in a full out war?? I think we are better built being friendly to each other as a team ready to well defend against anything.
What do I mean?
I was a reserve enlisted assigned to an active duty guided missile frigate for 5 years from e2 to e4. It was like a minnow in a shark tank. I did not know much. It changed my life
I found out my father was. Vietnam combat Vet Infantry Army 66-68. Agent Orange in the jungle just even for a few years would well stop his ability to raise his young fam.
I will say this. We should all be asking each other how are you doing??? and more then once.
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