Posted on Jan 11, 2023
What is your opinion of Biden taking classified documents after he left the Vice-Presidency?
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As of 1/10/23, we don’t have the complete story on the nature and classification of the documents, nor do we know the number of documents. Apparently, they were discovered in November and turned over immediately. How much difference does that make between the actions of him and Trump? Legally, the statute of limitations has passed, so what repercussions could Biden face, if any?
Posted in these groups: 
Joe Biden
Donald Trump
Joe Biden Donald Trump
Posted 2 y ago
Responses: 36
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Having worked with TS and beyond materials when I was active, I never did agree with ANY President being able to just wave their hand and declassify a document. I always thought the information was restricted for valid reasons and should not be so easily downgraded just because some former elected official decided they wanted to keep it.
What REALLY frustrates me is the two-tier (in)justice system we have in this country today. I'm really fed up with the selective persecution of certain individuals just because of party affiliation and the blatant ignoring of wrong doing for others. Either prosecute across the board or don't bother at all. Personally, I would rather see ALL infractions vigorously prosecuted. It's past time the "elites" were reminded of who they are supposed to be working for.
What REALLY frustrates me is the two-tier (in)justice system we have in this country today. I'm really fed up with the selective persecution of certain individuals just because of party affiliation and the blatant ignoring of wrong doing for others. Either prosecute across the board or don't bother at all. Personally, I would rather see ALL infractions vigorously prosecuted. It's past time the "elites" were reminded of who they are supposed to be working for.
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Thomas Larkins
SFC Kelly Fuerhoff - And the majority of the rest of us are REALLY tired with the lack of accountability for the Biden family and all his minions. Why not start with the taped conversation that Biden bragged about, when he extorted the president of the Ukraine, to either fire the prosecutor looking into his son's dealing in the Ukraine, or he would withold U.S. foreign aid. How is it , that travesty just got ignored????
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LCDR Ed Etzkorn
Completely agree. If any of us, likely below O7, did something like this we'd likely be court martialed and sent to Leavenworth.
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SPC Steven Nihipali
SFC Kelly Fuerhoff doesn't matter why or who... is this in the garage where Biden kept his car? Yeah, exact same garage... you baby paint a to m yellow house black and call it green
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Cpl Ronald Peters
SFC Kelly Fuerhoff Update Classified Documents found in Bidens Delaware Home and Garage and Home again that contained VP Bidens personalnots also! Still think someone else put them there? From the sound of your post you might.
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Biden will walk like HRC did.
The AG won't prosecute people protesting and harassing SCOTUS judges ( a felony) so I do expect Garland to bless off on Biden's Security Breach.
The AG won't prosecute people protesting and harassing SCOTUS judges ( a felony) so I do expect Garland to bless off on Biden's Security Breach.
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SSgt David Izquierdo
In all fairness, they haven't been able to prosecute Trump either. It's all show for the media.
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Cpl Ronald Peters
SSgt David Izquierdo In true fairness it has been PROVEN & ADMITTED all the Russia BS Falsified Documents that HRC's Clinton Foundation paid for! Makes Watergate look like a kid stealing a piece of candy. Didn't stop Pelosi and the Democrats from Impeaching/prosecuting Trump twice. So he was not only prosecuted but persecuted for the entire 4 years he was in office and since leaving office! Why hasn't HRC been prosecuted she did pay to rig an election it just didn't get her the win?
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LTC (Join to see)
SSgt David Izquierdo they could have handled it differently but it was typical Democrat shock and awe before the election but now they won't be able to prosecute Trump if they can't prosecute Biden and Trump had it secured and they knew exactly where it was even if it was a dispute on documents they wanted back because as you know, Vice President Biden shouldn't have had it to begin with. A garage is not a scif and neither is a Chinese run think tank at the University of Pennsylvania.
President Biden is the Mr Magoo of presidents.
LTC Eugene Chu Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin SFC Kelly Fuerhoff MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P SPC Steven Nihipali SPC Steven Nihipali SFC Kathy Pepper
President Biden is the Mr Magoo of presidents.
LTC Eugene Chu Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin SFC Kelly Fuerhoff MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P SPC Steven Nihipali SPC Steven Nihipali SFC Kathy Pepper
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Notice in the past that Hillary Clinton and her secretary Huma abedin both had classified material on their laptop or server. Hillary Clinton destroyed her server after a subpoena and the FBI director didn't prosecute her. Now you find out years later how the FBI worked with other deep state operatives to sabotage president Trump and on censoring Republican or conservative ideas working together with facebook, Twitter and youtube. Thank goodness for Elon Musk bringing this out in the open and Democrats can't just say that Republicans are exclusive in the threat to democracy. Now we find out that Chuck Schumer and others worked with the FBI and the defense intelligence agency to censor critics. Even the White House is now being accused of censoring or trying to censor Tucker Carlson and some other Fox news reporter.
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I don't know the circumstances for president biden, but President Obama also had classified material an unsecured warehouse. But it looks like Democrats get the Hillary Clinton Teflon treatment while President Trump gets a police raid.
I loved hearing president Biden today talking about how irresponsible president Trump was in his sound bite on a recent 60 minutes episode. I'm glad that attorney general Garland and president Biden have to eat crow now because now it's going to be harder to prosecute president Trump if you give a pass to President Biden because he was vice president then.
I loved hearing president Biden today talking about how irresponsible president Trump was in his sound bite on a recent 60 minutes episode. I'm glad that attorney general Garland and president Biden have to eat crow now because now it's going to be harder to prosecute president Trump if you give a pass to President Biden because he was vice president then.
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SSgt Tom Neven
Simply not true. The National Archives debunked that lie. Shame on you for continuing to spread it.
https://www.archives.gov/press/press-releases/2022/nr22-001#august-12-2022
https://www.archives.gov/press/press-releases/2022/nr22-001#august-12-2022
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As a security manager and former Special Security Representative, I think people would be surprised by the amount of security incidents and violations that happen on a daily basis within the DoD and government agencies - and often times by senior officials. It's not right - but I have had to deal with senior officers who should know better mishandling classified. I expect it from a brand new private - but I've seen Majors, Colonels...doing the dumbest shit with classified. I don't know why we don't train people better on handling classified or people just don't listen. But I've seen it at BN to Corps levels. I've heard about it at the agencies. It's just mind boggling how often people mishandle it and even worse when I've seen other intel professionals do it. Just putting that out there how little people seem to know about classification authorities, handling classified, couriering it, etc.
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Investigate and if found guilty of mishandling classified the go to jail just like you and I would.
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SFC Kathy Pepper
Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth
According to 18 U.S. Code § 3282 - Offenses not capital, there is a 5-year statute of limitations, so it is unlikely any criminal charges will be filed. However, I agree that the government must conduct a thorough investigation.
According to 18 U.S. Code § 3282 - Offenses not capital, there is a 5-year statute of limitations, so it is unlikely any criminal charges will be filed. However, I agree that the government must conduct a thorough investigation.
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Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth
SFC Kathy Pepper - People state the situations are not the same...They are xactly the same. It is no different than if you or I mishandled classified data. If we put it in a closet andleft it unsecured for as long as the Bidens did (over 7 years), then we would be put under the jail. If the classified or declassified documents in Trumps perview are the same we would be put under the jail. Investigate and figure it out. Either both walk or both go to jail...there is no difference between the two...Well, really there is subtle difference...Trump had his secured in a facility in a locked compound whereas Bidens collection was just left in an unsecured closet of a think tank.
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Biden should have to endure a full scale investigation into his corruption and if he has been compromised
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SFC Kathy Pepper
PO3 Jeffrey Hoover
Trump, Biden, and now Pence. That's a lot of investigations. I'm not certain that Biden or Pence are corrupt because they retained classified documents, but they do have major lapses of common sense as far as classified documents are concerned.
Trump, Biden, and now Pence. That's a lot of investigations. I'm not certain that Biden or Pence are corrupt because they retained classified documents, but they do have major lapses of common sense as far as classified documents are concerned.
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If President Biden had the documents as recently as a few days ago, how could the statute of limitations have passed? Also, the rules for a former president and a former vice president are different in relation to classified documents. The media seems to be attempting to place blame for the response to the act, rather the act of taking classified documents unlawfully.
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We don't have a complete story, as we still don't have for Trump. Why did either of them feel the need to take these docs? That I do not understand, nor do I recommend doing it.
Also, the claim is that they reported finding them immediately, but have you considered that this might not be true? After all, how do we know it's true? But the larger questions is, how could they be lost, forgotten, pick a word for roughly 6 years? By the way, statute of limitations for what? At a minimum, classified data is marked at least 10 years upon becoming classified but they actually don't come under declassification review until after 20 years. These documents fall well within both periods, in which they are conceivably still classified. As for declassification, Biden does not have that authority UNLESS he was the one who classified the information as a classification authority. But we do not know this because even he claims he doesn't know what files were found. We also don't know if an actual crime was committed or whether this is simply negligence. So simply stating the statute of limitations is over makes zero sense. What people like me want to see is an apolitical, transparent, and single standard approach to these incidents. President Trump was cooperating with the National Archives, while simultaneously challenging their interpretation of the rules and law. Instead of allowing the issue to play out, the DOJ jumped the gun (right before an election no less) and raided his home. Why? The documents were protected, and they weren't going anywhere. But there is a clear and evident perception of disdain for Trump within the DOJ and that's a problem which requires more care to addressing the perception. I don't even like Trump and yet I find this highly unnecessary, as much of the BS he endured through his term in office. I get that in many cases he brought it on himself, but that is no excuse for apolitical agencies in our government to allow bias and politics to surface.
There are certainly differences between Trump and Biden and one could easily argue both sides and make claims of which is worse. Here's what I see:
1. Trump legally moved classified files from the White House to his residence in FL. That residence was a secure location, as any Presidential residence would be during and after their term. In fact, Secret Service even upgraded the security at his FL home after he left office. We still do not know the full details of Biden's files, how they were stored, how they got there, and whether they were secure or not. But from the current reporting it does not look good and in fact, compared to Trump's files, were likely much less secure (there are two locations by the way).
2. The amount and content seemingly appears that Trump might have had some more sensitive materials, but we don't know for sure. However, should Biden's cross the line of TS/SCI, it hardly matters comparably.
3. As I mentioned above the President is the highest level of classification authority in the Federal Executive branch of the federal government. He is allowed to declassify information as he sees fit (to include those of the depts and agencies who work for him) and there are no written policies or standards on the process for the actual President. That said, I don't like the idea of Trump simply "willing it," but without a law or a rule which includes the President, there really isn't anything one can do. The Vice President, on the other hand, is a whole different matter. While they too have classification authority, the only declassification authority they have is for information THEY classify. Regardless, Biden has made no claims that he declassified the files found at two locations thus far (nor have his lawyers). Now, I don't condone Trump's insistence he declassified all the files he retained, and I am concerned specific sources and methods could be compromised if they were released to the public. But they weren't Trump is obviously attempting to use a loophole here which can certainly be criticized, but ultimately, it's kind of a moot point if the files he retained were not compromised. And again, he has not offered a good logical reason to the American people for retaining the files. I would like both to present those reasons. Otherwise, both acted highly irresponsibly, and neither should ever hold the office of President as far as I'm concerned.
4. As for returning the files to the National Archives, Trump was certainly attempting to challenge this requirement. I have no idea why nor do I recommend doing so without any good reasons (which have yet to be articulated by both). Biden simply forgot they were there, so I will let you decide which is worse.
I'm sure I could come up with more comparisons, but that's it for now. Would you like to compare these incidents with Sec Clinton's? I would argue that one was the worst of all.
Also, the claim is that they reported finding them immediately, but have you considered that this might not be true? After all, how do we know it's true? But the larger questions is, how could they be lost, forgotten, pick a word for roughly 6 years? By the way, statute of limitations for what? At a minimum, classified data is marked at least 10 years upon becoming classified but they actually don't come under declassification review until after 20 years. These documents fall well within both periods, in which they are conceivably still classified. As for declassification, Biden does not have that authority UNLESS he was the one who classified the information as a classification authority. But we do not know this because even he claims he doesn't know what files were found. We also don't know if an actual crime was committed or whether this is simply negligence. So simply stating the statute of limitations is over makes zero sense. What people like me want to see is an apolitical, transparent, and single standard approach to these incidents. President Trump was cooperating with the National Archives, while simultaneously challenging their interpretation of the rules and law. Instead of allowing the issue to play out, the DOJ jumped the gun (right before an election no less) and raided his home. Why? The documents were protected, and they weren't going anywhere. But there is a clear and evident perception of disdain for Trump within the DOJ and that's a problem which requires more care to addressing the perception. I don't even like Trump and yet I find this highly unnecessary, as much of the BS he endured through his term in office. I get that in many cases he brought it on himself, but that is no excuse for apolitical agencies in our government to allow bias and politics to surface.
There are certainly differences between Trump and Biden and one could easily argue both sides and make claims of which is worse. Here's what I see:
1. Trump legally moved classified files from the White House to his residence in FL. That residence was a secure location, as any Presidential residence would be during and after their term. In fact, Secret Service even upgraded the security at his FL home after he left office. We still do not know the full details of Biden's files, how they were stored, how they got there, and whether they were secure or not. But from the current reporting it does not look good and in fact, compared to Trump's files, were likely much less secure (there are two locations by the way).
2. The amount and content seemingly appears that Trump might have had some more sensitive materials, but we don't know for sure. However, should Biden's cross the line of TS/SCI, it hardly matters comparably.
3. As I mentioned above the President is the highest level of classification authority in the Federal Executive branch of the federal government. He is allowed to declassify information as he sees fit (to include those of the depts and agencies who work for him) and there are no written policies or standards on the process for the actual President. That said, I don't like the idea of Trump simply "willing it," but without a law or a rule which includes the President, there really isn't anything one can do. The Vice President, on the other hand, is a whole different matter. While they too have classification authority, the only declassification authority they have is for information THEY classify. Regardless, Biden has made no claims that he declassified the files found at two locations thus far (nor have his lawyers). Now, I don't condone Trump's insistence he declassified all the files he retained, and I am concerned specific sources and methods could be compromised if they were released to the public. But they weren't Trump is obviously attempting to use a loophole here which can certainly be criticized, but ultimately, it's kind of a moot point if the files he retained were not compromised. And again, he has not offered a good logical reason to the American people for retaining the files. I would like both to present those reasons. Otherwise, both acted highly irresponsibly, and neither should ever hold the office of President as far as I'm concerned.
4. As for returning the files to the National Archives, Trump was certainly attempting to challenge this requirement. I have no idea why nor do I recommend doing so without any good reasons (which have yet to be articulated by both). Biden simply forgot they were there, so I will let you decide which is worse.
I'm sure I could come up with more comparisons, but that's it for now. Would you like to compare these incidents with Sec Clinton's? I would argue that one was the worst of all.
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Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin
1. Thanks for confirming. The problem is, people search for the procedures, and they find those which apply to specific departments, agencies, and even CDCs. The article you posted should actually read instead "Yes, the president can declassify documents, AND there isn’t a set protocol they have to follow"
2. I also received multiple iterations of training with regards to TS/SCI, worked in several in garrison and deployed environments, and even performed actual assessments on the facilities/locations themselves. You have to realize the this is the President's residence, one which he spent time in as President, and one which has to be accommodated for the highest levels of classified information. If you ever speak with WHCA folks they may tell you all about the degree of logistics required to accommodate secure zones in the various places he goes for brief and extended periods. Note, the Secret Service not only upgraded the security of the residence after he left office (i.e. more so than it had while he was President). Additionally, the FBI inspected the security and even made additional minor recommendations as the issues played out. The Secret Service yes, protects the President and immediate family, and with that comes the physical security of their residences. By extension, those documents were protected consistent with the standards required to have the classified documents and in which he could continue to have follow up the national security briefings President's are entitled to if they desire.
3. I will reiterate as you confirmed, the President has the declassification authority, there are now standards dictated by law, and in the absence of such things, no court can claim he does not have the authority in any manner he sees fit. That doesn't mean we can't criticize the manner he claims he did it. That's absolutely fair and I definitely have a problem with it. Especially when we don't know exactly what he had and more importantly why.
4. I'm a cybersecurity guy currently in the private sector and 27 years worth in my life with the DoD and the IC community. I have literally conducted these assessments to confirm security standards for high level government figures. I've also seen all kinds of accommodations made in various environments to stand up SCI level facilities both deployed and in garrison. You have to stop thinking in terms of the standard settings for a SCIF and understand the rules change for various environments. You mention and dismiss the Clinton example, which I find highly distressing from someone who claims the've had the training. Think of this... A personal server, forward facing to the Internet, not known by the security and auditing personnel from the Federal government, used for ALL (not just some, ALL) official business (this alone could revoke your gov job, and impose a hefty fine), which also had a significant amount of classified information, stored/transmitted without the required security and encryption standards. Investigators even confirmed it was very likely these servers were compromised, Clinton was properly advised she can't do this, and despite a subpoena, her people still deleted information from the servers before "cooperating" with the federal authorities and turning it all over. Note the reason the FBI Dir stated in not recommending indictment... “For an indictment you need probable cause, but prosecutors and investigators are looking for far more. You’re looking down the road at a substantial likelihood of success at trial that’s beyond a reasonable doubt. No reasonable prosecutor would pursue such an action." He had the probable cause and even confirmed it was at least "gross negligence". He protected a high-level figure running for President. Trump had no recourse from there. He cannot force the DOJ or FBI to indict or prosecute. So we need to stop hiding behind the "they investigated her and did not indict her." That was a choice and it does not equate to innocence on her part. Her actions were far worse than we've seen in both the Trump and Biden issues. The only thing I am grateful for, is that the people ultimately decided not to allow her to become our President.
2. I also received multiple iterations of training with regards to TS/SCI, worked in several in garrison and deployed environments, and even performed actual assessments on the facilities/locations themselves. You have to realize the this is the President's residence, one which he spent time in as President, and one which has to be accommodated for the highest levels of classified information. If you ever speak with WHCA folks they may tell you all about the degree of logistics required to accommodate secure zones in the various places he goes for brief and extended periods. Note, the Secret Service not only upgraded the security of the residence after he left office (i.e. more so than it had while he was President). Additionally, the FBI inspected the security and even made additional minor recommendations as the issues played out. The Secret Service yes, protects the President and immediate family, and with that comes the physical security of their residences. By extension, those documents were protected consistent with the standards required to have the classified documents and in which he could continue to have follow up the national security briefings President's are entitled to if they desire.
3. I will reiterate as you confirmed, the President has the declassification authority, there are now standards dictated by law, and in the absence of such things, no court can claim he does not have the authority in any manner he sees fit. That doesn't mean we can't criticize the manner he claims he did it. That's absolutely fair and I definitely have a problem with it. Especially when we don't know exactly what he had and more importantly why.
4. I'm a cybersecurity guy currently in the private sector and 27 years worth in my life with the DoD and the IC community. I have literally conducted these assessments to confirm security standards for high level government figures. I've also seen all kinds of accommodations made in various environments to stand up SCI level facilities both deployed and in garrison. You have to stop thinking in terms of the standard settings for a SCIF and understand the rules change for various environments. You mention and dismiss the Clinton example, which I find highly distressing from someone who claims the've had the training. Think of this... A personal server, forward facing to the Internet, not known by the security and auditing personnel from the Federal government, used for ALL (not just some, ALL) official business (this alone could revoke your gov job, and impose a hefty fine), which also had a significant amount of classified information, stored/transmitted without the required security and encryption standards. Investigators even confirmed it was very likely these servers were compromised, Clinton was properly advised she can't do this, and despite a subpoena, her people still deleted information from the servers before "cooperating" with the federal authorities and turning it all over. Note the reason the FBI Dir stated in not recommending indictment... “For an indictment you need probable cause, but prosecutors and investigators are looking for far more. You’re looking down the road at a substantial likelihood of success at trial that’s beyond a reasonable doubt. No reasonable prosecutor would pursue such an action." He had the probable cause and even confirmed it was at least "gross negligence". He protected a high-level figure running for President. Trump had no recourse from there. He cannot force the DOJ or FBI to indict or prosecute. So we need to stop hiding behind the "they investigated her and did not indict her." That was a choice and it does not equate to innocence on her part. Her actions were far worse than we've seen in both the Trump and Biden issues. The only thing I am grateful for, is that the people ultimately decided not to allow her to become our President.
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SSgt Tom Neven
You really have to stop spreading lies. Trump did NOT legally move the docs to his residence, as the Presidential Records Act mandates that they must be turned over to the National Archives upon leaving office. His residence was not a secure facility. Merely putting a lock on a closet door does not turn it into a secure facility.
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SSgt Tom Neven
Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin - You might try actually reading the Presidential Records Act. It mandates all presidential records, both classified and unclassified, are to be turned over to the National Archives upon leaving office. Trump was in violation of the law by taking and keeping those documents at Mar a Lago. He defied several subpoenas and lied about the number and location of records and tried to hide them after NARA asked for them to be returned.
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Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin
SSgt Tom Neven - You might actually try reading my posts. I am very familiar with the records act. That isn't what I challenged or even spoke to here other than Trump's challenge of it. I clearly stated I don't recommend it, nor did I understand his logic in doing it (as he has yet to tell us why). I did however speak to the legality of Trump taking the records in the first place, which was while he was still President. This is legal on his part. From there, he challenged NARA and was cooperating and working through the process (which the FBI conceded) until the DOJ decided to end the debate. So, on the same note that I do not condone Trump in his keeping the records (especially classified ones), I also challenge the DOJ in their actions of raiding Trump's home and the aftermath of that raid. But no, this has nothing to do with the classified information or retaining records in the right place, the DOJ was looking for a reason to go after Trump. That said, Trump doesn't exactly help matters when he chooses these unnecessary battles, but the DOJ has a duty to remain apolitical and unbiased on these issues. So now that we have a President who seems to have forgotten about his own removal of Presidential records (and yes, VP records are treated the same in the PRA), instead of doing this discretely, as it has been done for previous presidents who have all done similar things (it was just handled discretely), DOJ should be applying the same treatment. Biden did something completely stupid, as he Trump and while everyone is trying to make claims about which one was worse, few, if any are asking the simple question of why did they do it in the first place? Legal or not, let the voters decide from there how irresponsible they were and whether we can trust them with our nation's secrets and act like adults. Just as we all voted not to allow Clinton her term in office after clearly doing so much worse with regards to storing, maintaining, securing both official records and classified information (on a non-government, Internet facing server).
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Investigation still needs to be done. Biden has NOT claimed declassification by thinking about it and his lawyers turned them over to the National Archives after discovery.
https://www.politicususa.com/2023/01/09/rachel-maddow-explains-why-the-biden-classified-documents-are-a-dud.html
https://www.politicususa.com/2023/01/09/rachel-maddow-explains-why-the-biden-classified-documents-are-a-dud.html
Rachel Maddow Explains Why The Biden Classified Documents Are A Dud
Rachel Maddow contrasted how Trump each handled the news of classified documents in their offices to show why the Biden story is nothing.
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SFC Kathy Pepper
LTC Eugene Chu
Thank you for posting this video. I am trying to figure out for myself what are the similarities and what are the differences between to two circumstances.
Thank you for posting this video. I am trying to figure out for myself what are the similarities and what are the differences between to two circumstances.
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