Posted on Dec 16, 2023
What is going on with these changes regarding how we handle sexual assaults?
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Upcoming changes regarding sexual assaults go live on 27DEC. The executive order covers more areas than that alone, but I am focusing my attention on that topic, over the others. For those unaware, some highlights can be found here: https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/3479106/executive-order-changes-how-military-handles-sexual-assaults/
To be clear, I like the concept. I have had similar notions myself. Considering how bad things have been with sexual assaults, and by that I mean not only their increasing occurrence but the many examples of the poorly executed investigations or corresponding consequences, I started to believe that the DoD should empower a separate entity to crack down on the crimes, totally bypassing the opportunity of command leadership to abuse or neglect the responsibility of due-process and the issuing of uniform and fair punishments. Well, here we are. I knew I wasn't the only one thinking it.
However, two things leave me with questions. First, this special trial counsel has the right of first refusal. Why in the world would this counsel need to refuse one of these cases? If the point of having an entity outside the chain of command is to promote uniformity and fairness, and by implication do justice and uphold the moral integrity of the institution, then why give the counsel an option to NOT do that? The only thing I can think is capacity. In order to maximize effectiveness and efficiency, such counsels can only take so many cases. Seems like a lame excuse, if that is in fact the excuse.
Second, the report that issued these recommendations was submitted in 2021. It took two years to find its way to the President's desk? I know bureaucracy is slow, but that seems awful for something of such significance. Can anyone shed light on that timeline?
To be clear, I like the concept. I have had similar notions myself. Considering how bad things have been with sexual assaults, and by that I mean not only their increasing occurrence but the many examples of the poorly executed investigations or corresponding consequences, I started to believe that the DoD should empower a separate entity to crack down on the crimes, totally bypassing the opportunity of command leadership to abuse or neglect the responsibility of due-process and the issuing of uniform and fair punishments. Well, here we are. I knew I wasn't the only one thinking it.
However, two things leave me with questions. First, this special trial counsel has the right of first refusal. Why in the world would this counsel need to refuse one of these cases? If the point of having an entity outside the chain of command is to promote uniformity and fairness, and by implication do justice and uphold the moral integrity of the institution, then why give the counsel an option to NOT do that? The only thing I can think is capacity. In order to maximize effectiveness and efficiency, such counsels can only take so many cases. Seems like a lame excuse, if that is in fact the excuse.
Second, the report that issued these recommendations was submitted in 2021. It took two years to find its way to the President's desk? I know bureaucracy is slow, but that seems awful for something of such significance. Can anyone shed light on that timeline?
Posted 12 mo ago
Responses: 9
Prior to my departure from Soto Cano in Honduras, mt BN Commander wanted me to give the entire BN a SHARP class.
So, I designed the class off the Foundation Course I received in March. This class was different in the manner that I used all the information available and tried to get people to see SHARP from the eyes and mentality of the victims. I used stats. I used personal experience of others, without using any identifiable information. Hell, I used my own personal experience. I even had a Hall of Shame where I showed and talked about Senior Leaders getting nailed for SA/SH.
I even went so far as to tell the entire BN that the SHARP program is failing because we, as Leaders, are failing the SHARP program by failing to hold accountable those that violate.
The Government and the Military can include all kinds of changes and all kinds of training, but until Senior Leaders get serious about punishing those that harass and assault, nothing will ever change.
So, I designed the class off the Foundation Course I received in March. This class was different in the manner that I used all the information available and tried to get people to see SHARP from the eyes and mentality of the victims. I used stats. I used personal experience of others, without using any identifiable information. Hell, I used my own personal experience. I even had a Hall of Shame where I showed and talked about Senior Leaders getting nailed for SA/SH.
I even went so far as to tell the entire BN that the SHARP program is failing because we, as Leaders, are failing the SHARP program by failing to hold accountable those that violate.
The Government and the Military can include all kinds of changes and all kinds of training, but until Senior Leaders get serious about punishing those that harass and assault, nothing will ever change.
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SSG Roger Ayscue
The service should adopt a policy that you do not date within a unit.
If the service members stop seeing the unit as a place to meet a significant other this may go a long way to help remedy this. My wife was a Soldier the same time as I was, and her father was a field grade officer, the first question that he asked me when I talked to him was "Does she work for you" and then he asked, "Are you in the same unit" Both answers were no. His concern was that our relationship would take on an improper nature.
Dating within a unit leads to so very many problems.
There is an old saying that I cannot post here in its original form, but it has to do with doing something where you eat. Members of a unit need to see each other as just a fellow Soldier, and not a dating prospect. It is no different telling two enlisted soldiers that they cannot date, as telling an officer and enlisted person that they cannot.
Two Soldiers NOT in the same unit, I see no problem with, but too many assaults happen on deployment. If Soldiers are taught from day one that others in their units are off limits, then the change begins.
If the service members stop seeing the unit as a place to meet a significant other this may go a long way to help remedy this. My wife was a Soldier the same time as I was, and her father was a field grade officer, the first question that he asked me when I talked to him was "Does she work for you" and then he asked, "Are you in the same unit" Both answers were no. His concern was that our relationship would take on an improper nature.
Dating within a unit leads to so very many problems.
There is an old saying that I cannot post here in its original form, but it has to do with doing something where you eat. Members of a unit need to see each other as just a fellow Soldier, and not a dating prospect. It is no different telling two enlisted soldiers that they cannot date, as telling an officer and enlisted person that they cannot.
Two Soldiers NOT in the same unit, I see no problem with, but too many assaults happen on deployment. If Soldiers are taught from day one that others in their units are off limits, then the change begins.
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MSG (Join to see)
SSG Roger Ayscue making the dating within the same unit off limits will not stop SA/SH. While it is true that 78% of attackers are known to the victim, the known attackers are not always in the same unit. Not dating in the same unit would reduce (but not eliminate) preferential treatment. Too many assaults are happening, period, it doesn't matter the location. Nor do the harassers and assaulters care if you're in the same unit or not.
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SSG Roger Ayscue
MSG (Join to see) - No, it may not stop it, but it would help, and I don't remember this being such a big problem before barracks were open to visits from the opposite gender. I was in the Army both before and after the Army relaxed the Male/Female barracks exclusion. It got way worse when the exclusion was removed.
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As a victim of MST, it took almost 40 years. The worst were the serial rapists but I see the culture has not changed. They say the words but no one follows through, The leaders most likely were guilty of sexually assaulting or harassing other service members themselves so it was safest to sweep it under the rug. I am thankful that many of us are finally getting acknowledged and rated for the damage the assault caused that made it hard to do our jobs, I had names and places, enough people finally are reporting so a pattern can be seen and an individual or unit can be identified. 2 years is a victory, Some of us weren’t aware of a way to report assaults at the time they occurred but our performance suffered. Speaking as a civilian sexual assault nurse examiner, I saw delays caused by under manning labs to follow up on the rape kits. They sat on the shelves collecting dust, last year, the DA found a serial rapist and 7 different nurses from different nights were called as witnesses, we have another case of serial rapist coming up soon. First, we feel disgusted, suicidal, violated, we have to relive the experience each time we are asked about it, not a day goes by I don’t relive mine.
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SGT (Join to see)
MSG (Join to see) - I'm quite sure you can dig up a case or two but that number pales in comparison to sexual assaults committed by Males.
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MSG (Join to see)
SGT (Join to see) be that as it may, there are still women who are aggressors in SA/SH. Not to mention you called for the castration/mutilation of every male in the military.
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SGT (Join to see)
not to every male just those in her chain of command and maybe then the rest of the men in the military will stop ignoring the abuse of their fellow service members.
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Sexual assault is not a priority in the military or civilian realm. Idgaf what anyone says - it's not. I have heard, since SHARP was created at least, sexual assault there is "zero tolerance." Ha. I've seen the evolution of SHARP and not much has improve in it since it started. Very, very small changes. Also I've been a VA and SARC and seen the lip service given by leaders saying "zero tolerance" but not putting any emphasis on trying to reduce it.
For example, the military has repeatedly used administrative separations in lieu of court martial: "More than half of the 900 soldiers who were allowed to leave the country’s largest military branch in the past decade rather than go to trial were accused of violent crimes, according to an analysis of roughly 8,000 Army courts-martial cases that reached arraignment. The figure is a significant increase from about 30% in the previous decade.
Choosing to handle such cases administratively instead of through the courts can have serious ramifications, experts told the news organizations.
Some soldiers escape potential legal consequences: Those who may have been convicted of sexual assault won’t have to register as sex offenders, and those who could have been found guilty of domestic abuse will not be subject to federal restrictions prohibiting them from owning firearms."
armytimes.com/news/your-army/2023/04/10/how-the-army-quietly-discharges-soldiers-charged-with-violent-crimes/
Then add in that there's still a problem of victim blaming. I know people say there isn't but there is. No matter who the victim is.
I mean there's so many issues that come with this epidemic in both military and civilian realms. But no one really wants to address it. Look at the civilian world all these precincts with back logged SANE kits. Piled up, untested. Some so old they've degraded. So why report it when nothing happens? Sexual assault is rarely prosecuted and if it makes it trial and a conviction, there aren't really very long sentences handed out. Brock Turner was caught raping a woman - he got six months and didn't have to do all of it. Other cases have resulted in probation or less because "well we don't ruin this young man's future" because he was some popular athlete or whatever. (Usually white too).
Then add in when we have had men at the highest levels saying certain things are "locker room talk" or people say that kind of behavior is "boys being boys."
I don't see anything changing in my lifetime. I wish it would...but I doubt it.
For example, the military has repeatedly used administrative separations in lieu of court martial: "More than half of the 900 soldiers who were allowed to leave the country’s largest military branch in the past decade rather than go to trial were accused of violent crimes, according to an analysis of roughly 8,000 Army courts-martial cases that reached arraignment. The figure is a significant increase from about 30% in the previous decade.
Choosing to handle such cases administratively instead of through the courts can have serious ramifications, experts told the news organizations.
Some soldiers escape potential legal consequences: Those who may have been convicted of sexual assault won’t have to register as sex offenders, and those who could have been found guilty of domestic abuse will not be subject to federal restrictions prohibiting them from owning firearms."
armytimes.com/news/your-army/2023/04/10/how-the-army-quietly-discharges-soldiers-charged-with-violent-crimes/
Then add in that there's still a problem of victim blaming. I know people say there isn't but there is. No matter who the victim is.
I mean there's so many issues that come with this epidemic in both military and civilian realms. But no one really wants to address it. Look at the civilian world all these precincts with back logged SANE kits. Piled up, untested. Some so old they've degraded. So why report it when nothing happens? Sexual assault is rarely prosecuted and if it makes it trial and a conviction, there aren't really very long sentences handed out. Brock Turner was caught raping a woman - he got six months and didn't have to do all of it. Other cases have resulted in probation or less because "well we don't ruin this young man's future" because he was some popular athlete or whatever. (Usually white too).
Then add in when we have had men at the highest levels saying certain things are "locker room talk" or people say that kind of behavior is "boys being boys."
I don't see anything changing in my lifetime. I wish it would...but I doubt it.
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CSM William Everroad
SFC Kelly Fuerhoff I would be interested if there is any impact in restricted vs unrestricted reporting of SA on being able to take it to a CM and pursuing ADSEP because of it. I have heard JAGs talking about that in the past.
I think we should definitely do away with the practice of ADSEP in cases where violent crime is involved (especially SA).
I think we should definitely do away with the practice of ADSEP in cases where violent crime is involved (especially SA).
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MAJ Byron Oyler
I am old school in the sense that if you do a woman wrong I should be able to take him out back for some education and that education would stop short of needing a hospital admission. Please keep that in mind with what I am about to write. We have a major conflict in what abuse and harassment is to the victim and what the justice system can do. Abuse and harassment is defined by the victim, and that can be only to the level of a 1940s pin-up girl in the office to a man you find disgusting asking you out multiple times. IT IS HOW THE VICTIM DEFINES IT. Now you have leaders and a justice system responsible to make it right and often in the eyes of the victim, punishment. Emotions are involved. I am willing to bet with the definition of all things SHARP coming from the victim that often times the punishment the victim expected and the punishment received that the victim either never hears about it fully or they are not satisfied.
All the administrative separations you have heard of, were you briefed on each case? If legal takes a case to court martial and loses it will make administrative punishment all that much more difficult. Good chance the administrative action was recommended by legal as the best chance for any punishment. They are getting punished to the best the legal system can and a simple fact remains more often than not it is probably not what the emotions of the victim thought they deserved.
I can promise you leadership has zero tolerance for this however we cannot invite you or the victim to every behind closed doors discussion and I can promise you the discussions I have had with males have not been comfortable for them. I had an NCO that hit his wife and she sent pics to my wife because they ran in the same filipino group. I wanted to beat his ass and the way he and I are, he would have lost in every way. MPs were called to their house the morning it happened. Beating his ass was not an option as then I go to jail and my family would have lost my retirement benefits. Plenty out there do care and there is more zero tolerance than you see, please take my word for it.
All the administrative separations you have heard of, were you briefed on each case? If legal takes a case to court martial and loses it will make administrative punishment all that much more difficult. Good chance the administrative action was recommended by legal as the best chance for any punishment. They are getting punished to the best the legal system can and a simple fact remains more often than not it is probably not what the emotions of the victim thought they deserved.
I can promise you leadership has zero tolerance for this however we cannot invite you or the victim to every behind closed doors discussion and I can promise you the discussions I have had with males have not been comfortable for them. I had an NCO that hit his wife and she sent pics to my wife because they ran in the same filipino group. I wanted to beat his ass and the way he and I are, he would have lost in every way. MPs were called to their house the morning it happened. Beating his ass was not an option as then I go to jail and my family would have lost my retirement benefits. Plenty out there do care and there is more zero tolerance than you see, please take my word for it.
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