Posted on Nov 23, 2014
What happens if there is an APFT failure just before OER/NCOER cut off date?
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I was thinking about a scenario today...
I've seen many soldiers fail the APFT, retake it and pass in 30 days, and it's like it never happened. But what happens if your OER/NCOER cut off date is, say, a week after the APFT? That soldier will have no time to retake, so does that mean they are stuck with a failure on their eval?
I've seen many soldiers fail the APFT, retake it and pass in 30 days, and it's like it never happened. But what happens if your OER/NCOER cut off date is, say, a week after the APFT? That soldier will have no time to retake, so does that mean they are stuck with a failure on their eval?
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APFT
APFT
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 12
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Sir,
That would be a bad day for anyone I rated. NCOs and Officers are aware that need to pass APFTs. There is no excuse and it will reflect on their reports. Yes their report should state they have failed and that they need some type of improvement.
V/r
1SG Haro
That would be a bad day for anyone I rated. NCOs and Officers are aware that need to pass APFTs. There is no excuse and it will reflect on their reports. Yes their report should state they have failed and that they need some type of improvement.
V/r
1SG Haro
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MAJ (Join to see)
1SG (Join to see) So maybe this applies more for officers - because I know officers who have failed, but as long as they pass before that rating period ends it never shows up. That's what got me thinking about those with rating period end dates in April or October, vs those of us with end dates in, as for me, January. I could fail in October and then have 2 months to pass before it ever hit my eval, while others wouldn't.
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1SG (Join to see)
Sir,
That wouldn't happen in my AO, I don't think the Army needs the "good ole boy" environment.
V/r
1SG Haro
That wouldn't happen in my AO, I don't think the Army needs the "good ole boy" environment.
V/r
1SG Haro
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SFC Gary Fox
I concur. NCOs and officers have a responsibility to set an example for those they lead. If they are doing PT on a regular basis, then they shouldn't fail. If they aren't doing PT on a regular basis and they fail the APFT, then how in the world can they justify counseling one of their soldiers for failing because they didn't stayed prepared by doing PT on a regular basis?
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I think I get what you are saying. There is somewhat of a fairness issue. One person has no record of the failure, the other has it front and center on their NCOER/OER because of timing. Bottom line: you are in charge of your own career. Make sure that you have your APFT offset from your NCOER/OER cutoff by 45-60 days and you will never encounter this situation. I'm saying this from having screwed this up. My most recent OER, I ended up taking my APFT just before the cutoff. That morning it was pouring rain and cold. The test was cancelled. Some intrepid NCOs showed to test me and two MAJs in my same boat. I was miserable and terrified the whole time (hands trying to slip on push-ups, almost slipping apart on sit-ups), but I had to go through with it because I backed myself into a corner.
On the flip side, I 1,000,000% disagree that a Soldier should ever be flagged/punished/whatever if they do not pass an APFT while their previous APFT is still valid. The only time a Soldier should be forced to take an APFT for record is when there is not a valid score. This would encourage people not to wait until the last minute to knock out this requirement. The whole game of calling an APFT "diagnostic" or "record" ahead of time and then telling people they have to suck it up is just juvenile. I'm saying you cannot call an APFT "diagnostic" if you don't have a valid score. If you have a currently valid score, you are free to decide if you want the score for record or not. Keep in mind that this affects strugglers as badly as top achievers. The standard is passing score within the prescribe time frame (different between active and reserve). The rest is game-ology. I flat out disagree that unnecessarily posting a poor score for a Soldier is a " real picture of the SM" - actually it is literally the opposite.
On the flip side, I 1,000,000% disagree that a Soldier should ever be flagged/punished/whatever if they do not pass an APFT while their previous APFT is still valid. The only time a Soldier should be forced to take an APFT for record is when there is not a valid score. This would encourage people not to wait until the last minute to knock out this requirement. The whole game of calling an APFT "diagnostic" or "record" ahead of time and then telling people they have to suck it up is just juvenile. I'm saying you cannot call an APFT "diagnostic" if you don't have a valid score. If you have a currently valid score, you are free to decide if you want the score for record or not. Keep in mind that this affects strugglers as badly as top achievers. The standard is passing score within the prescribe time frame (different between active and reserve). The rest is game-ology. I flat out disagree that unnecessarily posting a poor score for a Soldier is a " real picture of the SM" - actually it is literally the opposite.
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MAJ (Join to see)
CPT (Join to see) Your first paragraph was the point I was getting at. We don't pick our PCS timing and/or rating period cut off. So, some soldiers will have an opportunity to retake the spring/fall APFT, while others won't. I hadn't really thought about this until today, but it does seem a bit unfair.
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CPT (Join to see)
But sir, you do have the ability to take control of the situation by taking control of the timing. If your company isn't doing one when you need it, you can usually squeeze in with a different one with a little advance planning.
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MAJ (Join to see)
CPT (Join to see) I know that, and you know that, but a PFC might not know that. Again - this is a totally hypothetical situation that I was thinking about. If it were me, I'm quite aware that my previous record is good for 8 months and so I have some leeway. Younger soldiers however just show up when they're told to.
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If for some reason the rating period ended, you would have no choice to use the last official APFT data.
Hopefully, it would not come to the last day where it left no option.
If there was time in the rating period, I would always allow a re-test until there was not time left or the Soldier just did not want to try anymore.
Hopefully, it would not come to the last day where it left no option.
If there was time in the rating period, I would always allow a re-test until there was not time left or the Soldier just did not want to try anymore.
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MAJ (Join to see)
LTC Paul Heinlein Sir, pretty much what I was thinking. I remember having to do an APFT in Afghanistan because I had an eval coming. I was in a situation where I had to pass because I was approaching the end of tour so no time for retest. I've never failed an APFT, so I came out fine. But today I was thinking about this and realized that many soldiers, just because of their OER/NCOER dates, will not be given an opportunity to retest during that rating period.
Now, I agree that APFT is a basic standard and all soldiers should be able to pass at anytime beyond injury/sickness, but it struck me that some soldiers, simply because of their rating period, are given an opportunity to retake while others aren't.
Now, I agree that APFT is a basic standard and all soldiers should be able to pass at anytime beyond injury/sickness, but it struck me that some soldiers, simply because of their rating period, are given an opportunity to retake while others aren't.
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LTC Paul Heinlein
MAJ (Join to see),
Roger. I can see where it seems to be lousy. But, the system is as fair as can be, e.g. within the Rating period.
I've had to take a few APFT's under adverse conditions and when sick. The older you get, the harder it is to overcome these things. And as an officer, I'm not going to say at the last second say I'm not going to take it (you could, but then the perception with your Soldiers would undermine you the rest of the time).
I've had a few where the NCOIC asked me "Sir, you going to be O.K. for the APFT?" and my response was "SGT, I'm either going to pass this test or die in the process!".
Roger. I can see where it seems to be lousy. But, the system is as fair as can be, e.g. within the Rating period.
I've had to take a few APFT's under adverse conditions and when sick. The older you get, the harder it is to overcome these things. And as an officer, I'm not going to say at the last second say I'm not going to take it (you could, but then the perception with your Soldiers would undermine you the rest of the time).
I've had a few where the NCOIC asked me "Sir, you going to be O.K. for the APFT?" and my response was "SGT, I'm either going to pass this test or die in the process!".
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MAJ (Join to see)
LTC Paul Heinlein Sir, had the same situation when I was at USUHS. Came in for the PFT sick and the the NCO asked if I wanted to delay. I said no, I'm already here. That 2 mile hurt, but I got it done.
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CPT Barry Kaufman
My APFT came on the last day of my rating period, and I didn't know it was the last day. You can surmise the immediate and long term outcomes.
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