Posted on Nov 26, 2016
CW2 Battalion Maintenance Officer (Bmo)
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I have already asked my NCOs to discuss the ramifications of divisive rhetoric and criticism of our incoming CiC. However, some Soldiers feel the need to rebel. When do comments become grounds for separation?
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Responses: 62
Col Rebecca Lorraine
36
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They don't have a right to a political stance as members of the Armed Forces. They are required to be professional. They are required to follow lawful orders. Period.
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MSgt Information Assurance Manager
MSgt (Join to see)
8 y
No disrespect intended, Ma'am, but all military members have a right to a political stance. We express that stance when we vote. Aside from that, politically divisive speech (or any divisive speech) in the work center should absolutely not be tolerated since it will most certainly cause divisions, friction and problems which will lead to a break down of good order and discipline. Criticism of the POTUS, even if it is the POTUS elect, should be shut down immediately with a reminder of our duty to abide by the UCMJ no matter what our personal opinion is of the our leaders.
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Col Rebecca Lorraine
Col Rebecca Lorraine
8 y
MSgt (Join to see) - I didn't say they couldn't vote, but a stance is a public declaration visible to others. Even bumper stickers can be considered a public political stance. They absolutely have a vote, but they gave up the right to a voice when in uniform on active duty.
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Col Rebecca Lorraine
Col Rebecca Lorraine
8 y
PO2 Anthony Martinez - Private life. The discussion is about the work place political opinions. Open verbaluzation, I support Trump signs on your desk at work. Unless I missed something, in the original discussion? Is it helpful for active duty to discuss and render opinions beyond respect or obedience to the elected officials who command and control the military? There is nothing that tears apart families like political differences. That has to be discussed and curtailed in the military workplace. Thank you though for clarifying the point. My example is also when I stated I would not vote for Trump, my sister in law said "but everyone in the military supports him", that leaves no room for those in opposition. They are cast out and disrespected. So, no they don't have a right to anything in the military workplace except humane treatment by their siblings, superiors, or subordinates in uniform. The supervisor has every right to shut down political discussions that are distractions from team cohesion. Or do you have another DoD ref that says they are. No longer bound by contract and ucmj to obey all lawful orders of those appointed above them? It's a new generation so they may have camouflaged yoga pants and lattes now...although I've only been out for a few years. (Actually I like the camouflage yoga pants idea!)
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SFC John Cancienne
SFC John Cancienne
8 y
What does the Oath of Enlistment have to say on the matter? It's pretty clear cut. You are swearing an oath to obey the orders of the POTUS and the orders of those appointed over you. In 21 years, I served under Presidents I voted for, and those I DIDN'T vote for. As a member of the military, you obey the orders, and if you see this it is impossible for you to obey these orders, leave the military. It's that simple.
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1SG Mike Case
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Tell them to keep it to themselves. The workplace is not an internet chat room and they don't get to just say whatever they feel. If they do not like it, then ETS and seek employment elsewhere but the whole "rebel" is a no-go and that is what UCMJ is for.
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Sgt Jim Weeder
Sgt Jim Weeder
8 y
You have to follow lawful orders from the CIC, we all know this. But when it is an order that goes against the Constitution it is allowed (as a safeguard) to not follow it. That would not be rebelling. The younger generation may be using the word in the wrong context. It may be that they are wondering how to go about not following that order. Just thinking outside the box. Some of you may remember "fraging" During Viet Nam now that was rebelling. Once again if they are asking how to not follow a direct order that conflicts with any of the laws then it should be answered. If it is just about being a rebel then they need to be told to take it outside. If it continues then to the Commanders carpet they go. This is a touchy time and feelings are running rampart, some do not know how to control these feelings.
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CW2 Cryptologic Linguist
CW2 (Join to see)
8 y
The younger generation signed the same contracts that the older generation signed. We will not; as service members, campaign for one candidate or another on "company" time or in the name of the service to which we belong. Further, once the President Elect takes office, we are sworn to uphold his (or her) orders. Divisive talk and criticisms of the CiC, especially in the workplace are certainly punishable under the UCMJ. Add in the fact that this person or persons have been advised/ordered to cease said discussions. Seriously, take it to your city hall, join a group, or volunteer for the DNC or GOP at some point; but do it as a private citizen ON YOUR OWN TIME and certainly not in uniform. Leave it at home, at your volunteer site, or with your family...do not bring it to the formation.
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MSG Frederick Otero
MSG Frederick Otero
8 y
Having a problem with this issue, let me once again point out Gen, Flynn and to keep it short Gen. McChrystal both excellent warriors that forgot where the line is drawn for a military service member.
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SFC Byron Perry
SFC Byron Perry
8 y
And use U.C.M.J. if they don't stop.
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SSG Program Control Manager
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Edited 8 y ago
There should be no change in how these things are handled. If it was unacceptable under Obama it's unacceptable under Trump. If it would have been acceptable under Obama, it should be acceptable under Trump.

If you believe that excessive criticism or disrespect against one is better or worse than excessive criticism against or disrespect against the other, then you are the problem.
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PO1 Edward Pate
PO1 Edward Pate
8 y
SSG (Join to see) - Unfortunately when it comes to those two topics few folks seem to have that ability. I've lost count over the years how many times I've see productivity grind to a halt while two or more folks engage in one of these discussions that turn into a shouting match. Talk about it outside of work at the bar if you want but keep it out of the workplace.
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SSG Program Control Manager
SSG (Join to see)
8 y
PO1 Edward Pate - We debate religion and politics at work all the time... we just stay respectful.
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PO1 Edward Pate
PO1 Edward Pate
8 y
If that's the case more power to you. In my environment you are begging for a visit from corporate HR for not keeping that out of the workplace. Plus managing a bunch of millennials who have never been in the military is tough enough without adding those two topics to the mix.
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SSG Program Control Manager
SSG (Join to see)
8 y
PO1 Edward Pate - We are all military retirees and we respect one another. If someone comes over from another section and the discussion starts to get heated, we will shift the topic of discussion to something like the weather.
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