Posted on Dec 3, 2015
CPT Jack Durish
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As usual, before the facts are in, President Obama lept to the podium to vilify guns and defend Muslims following the recent shooting in San Bernardino. However, he did make a very good point when he lamented that people could be precluded from flying on airplanes but not from buying guns. I suppose we must assume that no one has thought of this before, certainly not the President, but why not? Should those on the "no fly list" also be placed on the "no buyum guns list"? Yes, I know that those intent on committing criminal acts won't have any reservations about breaking a law to obtain a gun illegally.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/12/02/obama_people_on_the_no_fly_list_can_buy_guns_we_cant_stop_them.html
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SSG Infantryman
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There are what's called false positives and even when identified the person could remain on the list. EXAMPLE:
Robert J. Johnson, a surgeon and a former lieutenant colonel in the U.S. Army, was told in 2006 that he was on the list, although he had had no problem in flying the month before. Johnson was running as a Democrat against U.S. Representative John McHugh, a Republican. Johnson wondered whether he was on the list because of his opposition to the Iraq War. He stated, "This could just be a government screw-up, but I don't know, and they won't tell me."[41] Later, a 60 Minutes report brought together 12 men named Robert Johnson, all of whom had experienced problems in airports with being pulled aside and interrogated. The report suggested that the individual whose name was intended to be on the list was most likely the Robert Johnson who had been convicted of plotting to bomb a movie theater and a Hindu temple.
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LCDR Sales & Proposals Manager Gas Turbine Products
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I think people want to be lied to. They want to believe that everything bad that can happen is somehow "caused" by something that a law can protect them against. The alternative, is that you are never, ever secure from the madness...and have to define yourself as the first line of your own defense.

When another group of people accepts that fact, it slowly starts chipping away at the wall our society has been building between itself and personal accountability for at least six decades...if not longer. Give the authorities the power to enforce law and investigate criminals...and criminals have a better chance of being stopped. Give the private citizen the right to defend themselves...and you can't intimidate them into letting you have your way. Give people the right to their principles...and those without principle will soon loose power over law.

I believe if we ever got back that self-reliance, you'd see less, not more abuse of power. Why? Because if an official has the right and power to enforce law free of trumped up accusations...they are also free to make sound judgement calls when less, not more, is warranted. If every American owned, and was proficient with a weapon (we all know the difference)...there would be no "soft" target for an enemy to take. If we would respect the right of the person to believe, think, act as they see fit according to their best ideals...I think we'd find ourselves in far less disagreement.

What does a "no fly list" really do? Nothing more than the "No Guns" sign at the mall.

If you've attracted enough attention from the people charged with our security to be banned from flying...there ought to be someone with lots of training, from some alphabet soup entity watching you closely enough to know what you sing in the shower.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
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Unless the Government can show that "list" is 100% accurate and in accordance with Due Process, not No, but #%^&$^& No.

Here's the deal. The Government is NOT efficient. Everyone on this site has worked for the Government. If anyone here can tell me with a straight face that the Government is efficient, I will call them a liar to their face. Especially a Government Bureaucracy.

The Government is also NOT Trustworthy. Someone, please tell me you trust the Government. Please, I would LOVE to hear of someone saying they TRUST the Government. Not individuals, but the Government as a whole. I'm sure for every example of the Government doing the right thing, I can come up with a dozen examples of wrongness.

Erring on the side of Caution, means erring on the side of the People. Not the Government. The Government could screw up a wet dream.
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CW3 Jim Norris
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Sure makes sense to me. If folks are not able to fly on commercial airlines, they should have enhanced surveillance and not be able to pass a background check for a weapon.
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SSG Infantryman
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There are people on the list that are or have been mistaken to be someone else. Once at the counter they have to provide more information to be able to board. They don't even know they are on the list until check-in. This list isn't 100% accurate and should not be used to strip away a citizen's constitutional right.
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CW3 Jim Norris
CW3 Jim Norris
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SSG (Join to see) - Hell Sarge, no list is perfect.....a small percentage of people make it to the no-fly, to include my sister-in-law by accident (she's a sixty eight year old woman with a walker) but it was rectified within an hour at the airport. Maybe it could just be a 'more information required' moment for the background check also. I guess having never been arrested or 'black-listed' in my life I find it difficult to understand how folks get themselves into these situations. I wake up some mornings and just want 'my' country back - the one I grew up in, where we left our front doors unlocked and stopped to pick up the hitchhiker without a second thought and I wore my dress greens on every flight, in or out of CONUS......guess old men just think that the 'good old days' really where just that.
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SSG Infantryman
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I want my kids to live in that world too!
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TSgt Kenneth Ellis
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Teddy Kennedy and Al Gore was on it. Ted only needed a car. And Al Gore is. Whack job. I would at no because there are people on it that should not be. The list is it perfect.
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MCPO Roger Collins
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Good Grief! How can this even be a question? A Made my feelings noted in a different thread regarding the ability of anyone on a no-fly list or other terrorist related watch list. It is critical that we know when these types are up to any sort of nefarious activity. As much of a 2nd amendment advocate as I am, I would not hesitate to back such legislation, if it is required. Now someone tell me how it is that the Feds do the gun checks and do not have such people on their databases to verify their legitimacy to own firearms. Its unbelievable that this is not included in a reason not to authorize the purchase of firearms by these people. BTW, there is normally a backlog of checks and the purchase can be made without the check if the delay is over 88 days.
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SGT Jerrold Pesz
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Since I don't fly I don't care. However like most government lists the no fly list is not very accurate and has included such people as Ted Kennedy, the president of Bolivia, toddlers and anyone named Robert Johnson. Another good question is after that list which list is next. Senator Diane Feinstein has stated that ALL veterans have mental problems. Most of the 9-11 hijackers were on the list. Obviously that did not keep them off of planes. The main problem that I have with the list is that numerous agencies can place you on the list and they don't have to have a valid reason, don't have to tell you why and don't give you a way to get off of the list.
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COL Korey Jackson
COL Korey Jackson
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SGT Jerroold Pesz, do you have supporting evidence to your statement that most of the 9-11 hijackers were on the (No-Fly) list?
I concur that two of the hijackers (Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi) were on Flight 77 that hit the Pentagon were on the FBI's terrorist alert list;
I also concur that some, but not all, 9-11 hijackers were selected by CAPPS (Computer-Assisted Passenger Prescreening System); however, I thought that resulted in additional screening of their checked baggage for explosives, and not additional screening at passenger security check points.
Indeed, was the No-Fly list even in existence prior to 9-11?
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