Posted on Jun 16, 2019
Should burning, or desecrating the American flag be made illegal?
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Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 13
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Absolutely not. I am as patriotic and proud as the next brother or sister on here, and as much as it burns me to see fellow citizens burning our flag, the 1st amendment absolutely gives them the right to do so. freedom of speech, and freedom of expression is for everyone. not just people we agree with - it's easy to support it when we all agree with someones speech or expression, quite another to support it when we disagree, yet that is exactly what the intent of it is, to protect those we disagree with from persecution. Especially from the Government. We took oaths to support and defend the Constitution, first and foremost, before all other loyalties, to include POTUS, It is why it is the very first thing we swear to, and to obey POTUS second. I have defended President Trump for a lot of things, because they were constitutional, questionable at times, but absolutely within his constitutional powers, granted by congress. This is not, and I will oppose it using whatever legal means are required.
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SSG Robert Perrotto
SP5 Donald Kalinowski - look - how many times do I need to say it angers me that people burn our flag, pretty much said that right off the bat. Criminalizing it is another matter, and absolutely is against the 1st amendment - I would die on this hill, I absolutely would sacrifice my life for a flag burner rather then let the government criminalize it. Just because it offends me, on a fundamental level, does not mean I turn my back on what the Constitution stands for.
Many of the same people agreeing with and supporting criminalizing flag burning, are the same people who shout "Free Speech" when the left wants to criminalize offensive speech. The hypocrisy is outstanding, almost to the level of cognitive dissonance.
Many of the same people agreeing with and supporting criminalizing flag burning, are the same people who shout "Free Speech" when the left wants to criminalize offensive speech. The hypocrisy is outstanding, almost to the level of cognitive dissonance.
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SP5 Donald Kalinowski
I guess that maybe you missed my point, There is a case pending in Bronx, New York where someone burned a gay pride flag that stood in front of a gay bar, Police are considering this a hate crime, Where is the first amendment in this case?
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SSG Robert Perrotto
SP5 Donald Kalinowski - and I absolutely stand against that, provided it was HIS flag to burn. I will stand on this hill for everyone, if this person goes to jail for burning a pride flag he purchased, then it will go to a federal appeals court. Ok - I read the case about this - He set the Bars flags alight, in other words, he destroyed property that was not his. You cannot do that, I criticize protesters who destroy property, as that is NOT covered by the 1st amendment.
Now, If you want to argue that local governments pick and choose which properties are ok to destroy and which is not - we absolutely agree because you cannot prosecute one and not the others, but I do believe that we agree that destroying things that do not belong to you is wrong.
Now, If you want to argue that local governments pick and choose which properties are ok to destroy and which is not - we absolutely agree because you cannot prosecute one and not the others, but I do believe that we agree that destroying things that do not belong to you is wrong.
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MSgt Jim Flanagan
Cpl (Join to see) - Not picking and choosing. I merely posted the legal definition of speech. Yes, I do believe the founders intended that definition, or something similar, when crafting the First Amendment.
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I am also "All In" on this. I know the Supreme Court has ruled that the burning of the American flag is covered under freedom of speech, but don't people who burn the flag realize that the flag represents their right to freedom of speech?
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MAJ Bryan Zeski
SGT (Join to see) - The sense is that it's your right to do so. You have the right, do you really need a reason to exercise it? How would that work with other rights? Like 2A? Do you need to present a reason to have a firearm and exercise that right?
The flag represents the government of the United States of America. Many people have problems with that government. It is their right to protest - and that includes burning the flag. Clearly it works to draw attention.
The flag represents the government of the United States of America. Many people have problems with that government. It is their right to protest - and that includes burning the flag. Clearly it works to draw attention.
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SGT (Join to see)
MAJ Bryan Zeski - Well draw attention it certainly does, just look at all the conversations we are having over it, so I see your point. Just a note on the firearms, on my concealed carry permit, it did ask for a reason why I wanted to carry a firearm. The most common answer for most is personal protection.
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MAJ Bryan Zeski
SGT (Join to see) - That's concealed. What about Open Carry? In Washington State, we can open carry without a permit or reason.
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SGT (Join to see)
In Texas, if you have a concealed carry permit, you automatically have an open carry permit. It varies from state to state. I like the open carry policy in Washington. If I'm not mistaken, Arizona and New Mexico are the same as Washington state.
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Here we go again. No, it is a protected form of free-speech, provided it is your flag and you aren't burning someone else's flag.
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PO1 (Join to see)
SGT (Join to see) - I believe that is because you are a reasonable person. I am also happy to hear about your involvement with the Patriot Guard riders. I was going to mention them because I think their mission is amazing.
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PO1 (Join to see)
SGT Joseph Cabra - I meant someone else's in that it is someone else's property. If I fly a flag in my yard, there is no First Amendment protection in someone coming on to my property and burning my flag.
You can't steal someone else's flag and burn it and be protected by the First Amendment.
You can't steal someone else's flag and burn it and be protected by the First Amendment.
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SGT (Join to see)
PO1 (Join to see) - Thank you. This discussion about flag burning is getting passionate, on both sides, I find my self agreeing and disagreeing at the same time on many of the points made.
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PO1 (Join to see)
SGT Joseph Cabra - Ha! Yeah, there was a story I remember where some guy went and burned someone's flag while it was on a pole attached to his front porch. I will see if I can find it.
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