Posted on Dec 17, 2013

Regarding the recent statement by a Federal Judge that the NSA surveillance and phone record keeping is most likely unconstitutional...

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Given that a Federal Judge has stated that the NSA collection of phone records is most likely unconstitutional, should Americans in general, and Servicemembers (Sworn to support and defend the Constitution) specifically, continue to support the NSA surveillance?

(Also, I debated with myself for awhile about whether to make this a new topic or include it in the older one, but for a number of reasons, decided to make it its own topic.)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/judge-nsas-collecting-of-phone-records-is-likely-unconstitutional/2013/12/16/6e098eda-6688-11e3-a0b9-249bbb34602c_story.html

Judge: NSA’s collecting of phone records is probably unconstitutional

Court grants request for a preliminary injunction on controversial program, but stays the action pending appeal.

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Posted 11 y ago

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Responses: 4

PO1 Jeff Asbridge

Posted 11 y ago

CW2 Evans,

Unfortunately, based on your response, you seem to be part of the problem and not the solution. I think that perhaps you need to re-read the constitution, 4th amendment in particular. It's quite possible that you took an oath that was different from mine, but mine said to uphold and defend the constitution, not try and find wiggle room to circumvent it.

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CW2 Joseph Evans

11 y

Jeff,

I'm all about curtailing surveillance of Americans. What we need to do is fix the laws (read Patriot Acts and NDAAs) that illegally extended authorizations that never should have existed. What American Service members do within the halls of NSA is not only within the limits of the Constitution they were sworn to defend, but a requirement for National Security against enemies foreign. You want the "perceived" NSA threat gone, get rid of the Bush Era domestic surveillance laws, curtail the limits of what corporations can do with their collected private information and deal with jack asses like Snowden, who is probably running, less from what he claims to know, and more than likely was conducting illegal surveillance of his boyfriend's cell phone in Afghanistan.

I remind you that our service members supporting the NSA are doing the right thing by the Constitution and you, 99.99% of the time. As for that other .01%, someone is sitting in the brig waiting for a court martial and a dishonorable.

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CW2 Joseph Evans

Posted 11 y ago

NSA surveillance is international in nature and therefore within the rights of the Executive Branch to conduct for purposes of National Security. It is critical that the Cryptologic Support Elements from the different services continue to support this aspect of its operations.<div>The Executive Orders prohibit Service members from targeting or collecting on United States Entities (its actually a pretty broad concept) with out special permissions granted through the Federal Intelligence and Surveillance Act Court or in cooperation with US Law enforcement that has already acquired the necessary warrants, court orders or writs to conduct surveillance on a US citizen.</div><div>What Snowden says we are capable of doing, may be true, but what we actually do, as service members, is not in violation of the 4th amendment. Furthermore, the storage of this data at the NSA facility is probably at the request of the FBI through arrangements made with cell service providers... Making this not an NSA issue, but an FBI one. Of course, if the providers in question have received your permission through the User Agreement, to sell your phone dialing patterns to corporations for determining marketing strategies, it is perfectly legal for NSA to purchase these records, just like any other corporate entity with an interest...</div>

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MAJ Bryan Zeski

11 y

The NSA collection of US to US phone call information is not international in nature by any stretch of the imagination.

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CW2 Joseph Evans

11 y

Sir,

True, but as I was telling the the Petty Officer, that data is not touched by our service members supporting NSA. For that matter, it is not accessed by the civilians under most circumstances since to do so would be a violation of direct orders from POTUS. The fact that the NSA even has the records was due to deception and collusion that occurred during the Bush administration and with the complicity of a Republican dominated Congress. Patriot Acts that now require a super majority to repeal prior to their expiration. Patriot Acts that are continually renewed by every NDAA since 2002, inserted by Republicans like McCain who sit on the Armed Forces Committee. The NSAs possession of those records is the law until SCOTUS or Congress says otherwise.

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MAJ Bryan Zeski

11 y

The fact that it is the law does not mean it is Constitutional. The Constitutionality has not (yet) been challenged. And while I understand that it IS the law, and as such, I have no choice but to abide by it. It doesn't mean I have to agree with it, or support it, or defend it.

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CW2 Joseph Evans

11 y

And it is that wariness of executive and/or congressional overreach that makes you a valuable Soldier and Citizen. Keep them honest and watch the slippery slope.

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MAJ (Join to see)

Posted 11 y ago

If the “most likely unconstitutional” changes to “unconstitutional”
then legally we shouldn’t support it, but something tells me surveillance of
this nature will continue, especially considering the combined US CONUS/OCONUS
interests, it’s not like our enemies play by the rule anyway. I also compare this to the type of stealth, and
sometimes direct surveillance one must maintain over our children and or
subordinates.

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SSG Robert Burns

Posted 11 y ago

If it has been deemed unconstitutional, I'm guessing it will be eliminated. There's no way that it can continue legally. If it does continue then we cannot support it because it is against the constitution and it's also illegal and we arent forced to follow illegal orders.

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Regarding the recent statement by a Federal Judge that the NSA surveillance and phone record keeping is most likely unconstitutional...

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