Posted on Sep 1, 2015
Pope to allow all priests to forgive abortion during Holy Year. What are your thoughts on this?
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http://www.oann.com/pope-to-allow-all-priests-to-forgive-abortion-during-holy-year/
If the Catholic and or Catholic religion is totally against abortion, then why is it ok to forgive abortion during the "HOLY YEAR?" What makes the difference.
I'm not Catholic and have never understood or agreed much with the Catholics, but this throws me for the biggest loop.
If the Catholic and or Catholic religion is totally against abortion, then why is it ok to forgive abortion during the "HOLY YEAR?" What makes the difference.
I'm not Catholic and have never understood or agreed much with the Catholics, but this throws me for the biggest loop.
Edited 9 y ago
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 8
Technically, Catholic Priests don't forgive sin. Only God can forgive sin. The Priest/Bishop/Cardinal acts as an conduit for God in offering forgiveness. The Holy Year, in my opinion, simply offers the High Pontiff a good back-drop for such a message.
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Cpl Jeff N.
Forgiveness is always there but you have to ask with a contrite/repentant heart. You cannot just keep sinning and asking with no intention of repenting and expect forgiveness. Even Christ told the prostitute he spared to go and sin no more. She didn't get forgiveness and still get to go on sinning.
You do not need the Pope or a priest to help you gain forgiveness. That is one of the issues I have with Catholicism is they put artificial hurdles/impediments between you and God.
You do not need the Pope or a priest to help you gain forgiveness. That is one of the issues I have with Catholicism is they put artificial hurdles/impediments between you and God.
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Capt Mark Strobl
Sgt Kelli Mays, I think you may be misinterpreting the Pope's use of the Holy Year to make this announcement. As Cpl Jeff N. pointed out, forgiveness is ever-available.
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Sgt Kelli Mays
Capt Mark Strobl - Maybe so....it just seems that it is only a certain period of time he's offering forgiveness.
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Capt Mark Strobl
As you stated above, you don't always agree with the Pope... thus, your lucid criticism.
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Pretty easy. Google abortion and Catholic position. I'm not Catholic, but hate the thought of killing 50 million babies in the womb since Roe v Wade, about 2/3rds of them black babies. Kind of makes you wonder if, "Black Lives do Matter".
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Because God is bigger than the Catholics and will forgive us if we ask Him to invade our hearts and accept that Jesus is our saviour. The only thing is you don't need a priest for this... :-) The thief on the cross with Jesus didn't have a priest with him and Jesus told him "Today, you will be with me in paradise". Yes - it IS that simple.
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If the Pope can excommunicate someone. He surely can forgive someone for having an abortion. Catholics follow Christ teachings.
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Sgt Kelli Mays
yes, but why only in this "HOLY YEAR?" and I'm not sure there is anywhere in the bible where it says to kill another human being is ok for whatever reason.
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TSgt Kenneth Ellis
Holy Week is when we follow the journey of Christ. Catholics in the Philipines impale themselves on a cross. And we recreate Jesus washing the feet of his disciples. I don't know if this is the only time a Pope has ever done this. I will ask the Father when I go to mass.
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Biblical Guide to an Abortion.
An Unbeliever's thoughts about the Bible, Quran and the Book of Mormon
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PO1 William "Chip" Nagel
The Bible's guide to abortion
I don't know how I missed this before, but I did. There is a biblical way of having an abortion. A method that is not only approved by God, it was invented by him. He describes it himself in the book of Numbers (5:11-31).
It's a bit long and complicated, so I'll break it up for you.
And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying ... If any man's wife go aside, and commit a trespass against him, And a man lie with her carnally, and it be hid from the eyes of her husband, and be kept close, and she be defiled, and there be no witness against her, neither she be taken with the manner; Numbers 5:11-13
The first thing to notice is the context. This procedure is only intended for married couples, specifically for any man that suspects that his wife has been messing around. No proof is necessary; suspicion alone is sufficient to God.
Then shall the man bring his wife unto the priest, and he shall bring her offering for her, the tenth part of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil upon it, nor put frankincense thereon ... And the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel; and of the dust that is in the floor of the tabernacle the priest shall take, and put it into the water ... And the priest shall set the woman before the LORD ... and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse.... (5:15-18)
OK, I am leaving some of the details out here, so if you're going to try this at home, make sure to follow God's instructions exactly. There's no guarantee any of this will work otherwise.
And the priest shall charge her by an oath, and say unto the woman, If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness with another instead of thy husband, be thou free from this bitter water that causeth the curse: But if thou hast gone aside to another instead of thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee beside thine husband: Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell; And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen. 5:19-22
This is the part that fooled me. I get the idea that if the woman has been unfaithful, then the magic bitter water will do something awful to her. But I wasn't sure just what. What does it mean to have your belly swell and your thigh rot? But then I saw the footnote in the NIV that said it meant this: "cause you to be barren and have a miscarrying womb."
So if the woman is guilty (had sex with someone besides her husband), then the bitter water will make her unable to have children in the future. And if she is pregnant at the time, it will abort the pregnancy.
And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people. And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed. This is the law of jealousies, when a wife goeth aside to another instead of her husband, and is defiled; Or when the spirit of jealousy cometh upon him, and he be jealous over his wife, and shall set the woman before the LORD, and the priest shall execute upon her all this law. Then shall the man be guiltless from iniquity, and this woman shall bear her iniquity.5:27-31
It's all part of God's wondrous Law of Jealousies. God's magical abortion procedure. A priest, some bitter water, and a wife that you think might have been unfaithful. Priceless. So if God has his own abortion procedure, abortion can't be wrong, right?
I don't know how I missed this before, but I did. There is a biblical way of having an abortion. A method that is not only approved by God, it was invented by him. He describes it himself in the book of Numbers (5:11-31).
It's a bit long and complicated, so I'll break it up for you.
And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying ... If any man's wife go aside, and commit a trespass against him, And a man lie with her carnally, and it be hid from the eyes of her husband, and be kept close, and she be defiled, and there be no witness against her, neither she be taken with the manner; Numbers 5:11-13
The first thing to notice is the context. This procedure is only intended for married couples, specifically for any man that suspects that his wife has been messing around. No proof is necessary; suspicion alone is sufficient to God.
Then shall the man bring his wife unto the priest, and he shall bring her offering for her, the tenth part of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil upon it, nor put frankincense thereon ... And the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel; and of the dust that is in the floor of the tabernacle the priest shall take, and put it into the water ... And the priest shall set the woman before the LORD ... and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse.... (5:15-18)
OK, I am leaving some of the details out here, so if you're going to try this at home, make sure to follow God's instructions exactly. There's no guarantee any of this will work otherwise.
And the priest shall charge her by an oath, and say unto the woman, If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness with another instead of thy husband, be thou free from this bitter water that causeth the curse: But if thou hast gone aside to another instead of thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee beside thine husband: Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell; And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen. 5:19-22
This is the part that fooled me. I get the idea that if the woman has been unfaithful, then the magic bitter water will do something awful to her. But I wasn't sure just what. What does it mean to have your belly swell and your thigh rot? But then I saw the footnote in the NIV that said it meant this: "cause you to be barren and have a miscarrying womb."
So if the woman is guilty (had sex with someone besides her husband), then the bitter water will make her unable to have children in the future. And if she is pregnant at the time, it will abort the pregnancy.
And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people. And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed. This is the law of jealousies, when a wife goeth aside to another instead of her husband, and is defiled; Or when the spirit of jealousy cometh upon him, and he be jealous over his wife, and shall set the woman before the LORD, and the priest shall execute upon her all this law. Then shall the man be guiltless from iniquity, and this woman shall bear her iniquity.5:27-31
It's all part of God's wondrous Law of Jealousies. God's magical abortion procedure. A priest, some bitter water, and a wife that you think might have been unfaithful. Priceless. So if God has his own abortion procedure, abortion can't be wrong, right?
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PO1 William "Chip" Nagel
It was what would be called a Chemical Abortion or the Morning After Pill Today. Even back then they were aware of Herbal "Medicines" that would cause Cramps so bad that the woman would lose the Child and then there was always the Good Old Fashioned Old Testament Cure All for Social Ills, Stoning, No More Baby, No More Woman.
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I love the Pope and love what he is trying to do. Unfortunately it is a case of too little too late. A giant rift, chasm and yes a Schism has formed in the Church and I don't know if it is possible to heal it. When I was growing Up the Church was very Involved with the Civil Rights Movement and was making great ground and yes some would say it leaned to the Left. There were also the Mary Knoll Sisters and Priests Protesting outside of the "School of the Americas" where supposedly US Trained Central and South American Right Wing Military Units and Dictators. Just before I joined there was Roe vs Wade in 73 and although it took a decade or two the Church ripped itself apart especially in the US with the US College of Cardinals taking a Hard Right Turn and emphasizing "Right to Life" and deemphasizing "Social Justice" which left the Middle, Left and Young of the Church out flapping in the wind. We became "Easter/Christmas" Catholics Only. With it's continued emphasis on just Condemning Gays and Abortions while a Horror stories started coming out about the Priest Children Escapades and the Irish Sisters Orphanage/Nightmare Factory Most of us Old School Non "US Conservative" Catholics learned to keep our "Social Justice" in our Heart and Basically Ignore the Church. I know where the Pope is coming from being that he Knew Bishop Oscar Romero who was killed by Right Wing Death Squads and wants to pull the Church away from that BS. He still believes that "Social Justice" starts with Conception and not all those raised in the Church buy that anymore. I have killed for my country, I helped Kill Catholic Priests and Nuns as part of Iran-Contra. Just the Ramblings of the Son of Two Lay Ministers in the Catholic Church.
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