Posted on Oct 15, 2014
Is our military today a volunteer military or volunteer mercenaries?
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The constant demand for more special duty pays and allowances and medals well beyond a generous combat zone tax exclusion--even before we have deployed makes me wonder if we have lost sight of selfless service and accomplishing the mission...
Military Pay
Deployment
Awards
Leadership
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 20
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I may be a professional soldier, but I am not a mercenary. A mercenary care not one whit for who he works for. Loyalty goes to the money not who he is fighting for. I DO care who I work for. My loyalty is to my nation, not the paycheck. While pay is important, I bet if you polled the entire military, pay is probably not going to be at the top of the list of why people serve....
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1LT William Clardy
LTC Paul Labrador, I think if you looked you would find that, at least in the last half-century, most so-called mercenaries have tended to care at least as much about which side they're fighting and dying for as today's American soldier -- and generally doing so with no promise of unending care if they bought a piece of the farm.
And before you sprain an arm touting your ethical superiority, would you really rate yourself as more ethical than the idealistic Americans who fought in the Lincoln Brigade, or the airmen of the 1st American Volunteer Group or the Americans who fought the Communists in Angola? Or are you comparing your ethics to those of the former South African special forces soldiers who hired themselves out to our side during the occupation of Iraq, just so they could save up enough to buy a bit of land to settle down on?
And before you sprain an arm touting your ethical superiority, would you really rate yourself as more ethical than the idealistic Americans who fought in the Lincoln Brigade, or the airmen of the 1st American Volunteer Group or the Americans who fought the Communists in Angola? Or are you comparing your ethics to those of the former South African special forces soldiers who hired themselves out to our side during the occupation of Iraq, just so they could save up enough to buy a bit of land to settle down on?
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LTC Paul Labrador
I don't consider the AVG or Lincoln Brigade or Eagle Squadron "mercenaries". They were actually inducted into the armed forces of the nation they were fighting for. In essence like the Gurkhas and French Foreign Legion. Big difference than being a mere soldier for hire.
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Capt Richard I P.
LTC Paul Labrador Sir, it seems like you've set up a tautology: "A mercenary care not one whit for who he works for. Loyalty goes to the money not who he is fighting for." (sic) Ergo someone who does care who he fights for regardless of status (regular, militia, auxiliary, mercenary-cum-regular by administration, private military contractor whose company will not hire out to anyone but one nation....) is no longer a mercenary.
If following such strict definitions, then I suppose it must be right since it has been defined as such. But there's a lot more gray area than such a definition would suggest, which is where the really interesting parts of this question lie, which is what I think 1LT William Clardy was driving at. Some of the greatest thinkers in military history have been mercenaries, and have written on the topic extensively (Machiavelli, Thucydides, Xenaphon off the top of my head). Does working exclusively for one country really make you not a mercenary? Does caring about the cause? Does a professional soldier's disbelief in a cause but willingness to comply nonetheless out of desire to be paid?
If following such strict definitions, then I suppose it must be right since it has been defined as such. But there's a lot more gray area than such a definition would suggest, which is where the really interesting parts of this question lie, which is what I think 1LT William Clardy was driving at. Some of the greatest thinkers in military history have been mercenaries, and have written on the topic extensively (Machiavelli, Thucydides, Xenaphon off the top of my head). Does working exclusively for one country really make you not a mercenary? Does caring about the cause? Does a professional soldier's disbelief in a cause but willingness to comply nonetheless out of desire to be paid?
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1LT William Clardy
LTC Paul Labrador, what about troops who make themselves available to only one side in a civil war? Do you consider the SADF combat veterans who provided security for Coalition staff to be morally or ethically deficient because they no longer operated under the umbrella of a nation-state's official armed forces? How about the papal body guard, one of the longest-standing "mercenary" units in modern existence?
How much do you know about the actual modern history of mercenaries? Anything about Mike Hoare and 5 Commando? Are you aware that the Légion étrangère was kept out of France proper for most of its history, and was almost disbanded in the aftermath of its support of the French generals' attempted coup? Have you ever pondered on the fact that the victors in civil wars don't prosecute their foreign-born advisers with anything like the vigor they use for punishing mercenaries who fought for the losing side?
How much do you know about the actual modern history of mercenaries? Anything about Mike Hoare and 5 Commando? Are you aware that the Légion étrangère was kept out of France proper for most of its history, and was almost disbanded in the aftermath of its support of the French generals' attempted coup? Have you ever pondered on the fact that the victors in civil wars don't prosecute their foreign-born advisers with anything like the vigor they use for punishing mercenaries who fought for the losing side?
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I will approach it from another angle. I think it's a two way street here. Unfortunately, the military now is treated more like a business so that's how its ran. Personnel are shuffled like a deck of cards. One minute we need you really bad another minute here's the door. Good personnel get jaded because their careers fall short due to not being able to meet check boxes in time due to ops tempo and deploying. It's not uncommon in the AD AF to have someone who has pulled more of their weight by deploying on a short notice over and over but get passed over for someone who managed to stay in garrison most their career by being able to accomplish those standout items on OPR or PRF.
That's how it is. If they have a huge demand they will offer bonuses on both sides. If they don't here is your voluntary sep pay.
I think in a big picture society is different now also. I will assume that a good deal people are not always joining just for god and country anymore. Now there is more access to education and more opportunities to go to trade schools colleges and get jobs in the corporate that may have been there in the previous years. Before there was a lot access to education back in the day the military was pretty much the main way to learn a skill or get the GI bill.
The current generation is more narcissistic than the past. Now everyone is growing up that they should figure out how to make the next billion dollar i Phone app or become the next idol. Everything is now being centered on me. That is the way world works now.
Even the dedicated at some point in a world where you may not be appreciated for your craft do get jaded and will want to leave and find other work if they do not feel incentives to stay. I have seen good pilots turn down the 6 figure retention bonus because they were tired of being jerked around or their career was going no where all due to politics.
Maybe if the military can get rid of the politics and go back to competency than people will be more inclined to stay in. I have little faith those things will happen anytime soon if at all.
That's how it is. If they have a huge demand they will offer bonuses on both sides. If they don't here is your voluntary sep pay.
I think in a big picture society is different now also. I will assume that a good deal people are not always joining just for god and country anymore. Now there is more access to education and more opportunities to go to trade schools colleges and get jobs in the corporate that may have been there in the previous years. Before there was a lot access to education back in the day the military was pretty much the main way to learn a skill or get the GI bill.
The current generation is more narcissistic than the past. Now everyone is growing up that they should figure out how to make the next billion dollar i Phone app or become the next idol. Everything is now being centered on me. That is the way world works now.
Even the dedicated at some point in a world where you may not be appreciated for your craft do get jaded and will want to leave and find other work if they do not feel incentives to stay. I have seen good pilots turn down the 6 figure retention bonus because they were tired of being jerked around or their career was going no where all due to politics.
Maybe if the military can get rid of the politics and go back to competency than people will be more inclined to stay in. I have little faith those things will happen anytime soon if at all.
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Capt Richard I P.
Lt Col (Join to see) Sir I agree generally with the gist of some of the points you make about changes in military culture, but having gone from a very martial one (the Corps) to a very corporate one (Joint) I've gotten to see each service runs things differently. From my perspective, the Air Force is about one step a way from being a civilian government agency.
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Lt Col (Join to see)
no argument here. I looked at a manpower graph a while back where almost a third of the AF is Civilians either GS or Contractor. In some cases both, Guard personnel can be Air Reserve Technicians or ART's where they hold both a GS and AF grade.
The Air Force is one of the few services where you might only have only one or two military in the shop and the rest civves. I am AF contractor as a day job we out number the AD AF buy 4 to 1 in our building.
The Air Force is one of the few services where you might only have only one or two military in the shop and the rest civves. I am AF contractor as a day job we out number the AD AF buy 4 to 1 in our building.
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Having thought about this subject and after reviewing what a mercenary is defined as. A few things that seperate a merecnary from the military are.
1. A mercenary is only working for hire, and is bound by a contract performance work statement or task order.
2. They do not take an oath or are bound by the laws that the military are under.
3. They are not part of the armed forces of the nation.
4. One interesting thing is that the mercenary is considered someone who makes significantly more than a person of equal responsibility in the countries armed services.
Lets say an average soldier is an E5 makes about 40K with the benefits. Take that same person at a contracting security firm and now makes 150K. One guy stated he made 165K.
The contractor can simply say fuck it I am done and leave, where as we get wait out our service commitment.
Obviously people do end up having life changing thought about where there life to go. Maybe the reach a point where the military is no longer providing the fulfillment to stay in. I know for me I thought I was going to be lifer or at least the 20 on AD, but my AD career was starting to go stagnant, I could have said yeah I will stay in and be Captain for Life, I saw the writing on the wall and was probably not going to make O4 on AD. I opted to get out while I can get in the reserve pool before it go over competitive.
Ironically my dad originally enlisted in the 70's with the intent doing 6 and out but than his leadership saw his potential as an officer. They picked him up for the bootstrap program where he got to go to school full time on AD. He ended up doing 24 and a half and retiring.
1. A mercenary is only working for hire, and is bound by a contract performance work statement or task order.
2. They do not take an oath or are bound by the laws that the military are under.
3. They are not part of the armed forces of the nation.
4. One interesting thing is that the mercenary is considered someone who makes significantly more than a person of equal responsibility in the countries armed services.
Lets say an average soldier is an E5 makes about 40K with the benefits. Take that same person at a contracting security firm and now makes 150K. One guy stated he made 165K.
The contractor can simply say fuck it I am done and leave, where as we get wait out our service commitment.
Obviously people do end up having life changing thought about where there life to go. Maybe the reach a point where the military is no longer providing the fulfillment to stay in. I know for me I thought I was going to be lifer or at least the 20 on AD, but my AD career was starting to go stagnant, I could have said yeah I will stay in and be Captain for Life, I saw the writing on the wall and was probably not going to make O4 on AD. I opted to get out while I can get in the reserve pool before it go over competitive.
Ironically my dad originally enlisted in the 70's with the intent doing 6 and out but than his leadership saw his potential as an officer. They picked him up for the bootstrap program where he got to go to school full time on AD. He ended up doing 24 and a half and retiring.
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