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As I am considered combat arms I can’t have a profile stating I can’t run. I have a permanent walk/run at own pace and distance. I had ankle surgery and since then can’t run even half a mile without shooting pain. I also recently got a spinal tap for a C-Section and am having tons of pain even with stretching so that hinders me running. I love being a medic and have been told im pretty damn good at it too and would hate to have to get out as I really want to stay in for not only me but to have stability for my new baby as well
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 10
I assume you mean "referred to a MEB" and not "recommended", because it's not an option. You will have the ability to disagree with any findings that come from the Integrated Disability Evaluation System (IDES) (the MEB is the first part of the IDES), but you have no choice about being put in (well, you can plead with the person referring you, but that's about it).
There are a couple of routes the process can take, but in a nutshell it comes to this. At some point you will hit your Medical Retention Determination Point (MRDP). Most often this happens when you reach one year and still have a condition that prevents you from fully doing the functions of being a Soldier or your specific job (this most often happens when you are given a P3 or P4 profile).
One of two things can happen at this point - you will go to a MOS Administrative Retention Review (MAR2) or directly into the IDES process (first phase is the MEB). If you go the MAR2 route, the resultant decision will be to keep you in your MOS, reclassify you to another MOS, or referred to the IDES.
There are various phases in the IDES (MEB, PEB, etc) which you will be led through by the hand if you are referred. One of the very first things that will happen if you get into the IDES is being assigned a PEBLO (Physical Evaluation Board Liaison Officer) who, quite frankly, will serve as your spirit guide though the entire process.
In a nutshell, the process is to review and document fully any of the conditions affecting you and then determine what conditions cause you to be 'unfit for duty' (some conditions would make an 11B unfit but now a 92A).
Being referred to the IDES does not automatically mean that you will separate from the military as there are various "off ramp" points where you are returned to duty if you are not found unfit. During the IDES process, you'll have the opportunity to disagree with MEB or PEB findings.
Bottom line: If you're 'broke' and can't do your job, can you do another job in the military? If you can't then they will put you through the IDES and evaluate you for retention or separation.
There are a couple of routes the process can take, but in a nutshell it comes to this. At some point you will hit your Medical Retention Determination Point (MRDP). Most often this happens when you reach one year and still have a condition that prevents you from fully doing the functions of being a Soldier or your specific job (this most often happens when you are given a P3 or P4 profile).
One of two things can happen at this point - you will go to a MOS Administrative Retention Review (MAR2) or directly into the IDES process (first phase is the MEB). If you go the MAR2 route, the resultant decision will be to keep you in your MOS, reclassify you to another MOS, or referred to the IDES.
There are various phases in the IDES (MEB, PEB, etc) which you will be led through by the hand if you are referred. One of the very first things that will happen if you get into the IDES is being assigned a PEBLO (Physical Evaluation Board Liaison Officer) who, quite frankly, will serve as your spirit guide though the entire process.
In a nutshell, the process is to review and document fully any of the conditions affecting you and then determine what conditions cause you to be 'unfit for duty' (some conditions would make an 11B unfit but now a 92A).
Being referred to the IDES does not automatically mean that you will separate from the military as there are various "off ramp" points where you are returned to duty if you are not found unfit. During the IDES process, you'll have the opportunity to disagree with MEB or PEB findings.
Bottom line: If you're 'broke' and can't do your job, can you do another job in the military? If you can't then they will put you through the IDES and evaluate you for retention or separation.
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COL Randall C.
SPC (Join to see) - Two resources for you if you want to become more familiar with the processes. If there's confusion between a MAR2 and the DES (The "I" of IDES is because the process is integrated with the VA disability determination) is because they are separate, but related, processes.
You could be referred to the MAR2 and then subsequently go through the DES if you don't meet the standards of your PMOS/AOC or start at the DES, be found 'fit for duty' and subsequently referred to go through the MAR2 for PMOS/AOC fitness standards evaluation.
Most servicemembers (including leadership) lump the two together until the have to deal with it the first time.
AR 635-40 covers the entire process:
https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/ARN6811_AR635-40_ADMIN_WEB_Final.pdf
MAR2 resources:
https://www.army.mil/article/100607/the_military_occupational_specialty_administrative_retention_review
https://www.hrc.army.mil/content/MOS%20Administrative%20Retention%20Review%20(MAR2)
IDES resources:
https://militarydisabilitymadeeasy.com/integrateddisabilityevaluationsystem.html
https://warriorcare.dodlive.mil/Portals/113/Documents/Policies%20Documents/DES_DoDI_1332.18_change_1.pdf?ver=M9Rxah-7rrB2u6W2XD8U7g%3d%3d
You could be referred to the MAR2 and then subsequently go through the DES if you don't meet the standards of your PMOS/AOC or start at the DES, be found 'fit for duty' and subsequently referred to go through the MAR2 for PMOS/AOC fitness standards evaluation.
Most servicemembers (including leadership) lump the two together until the have to deal with it the first time.
AR 635-40 covers the entire process:
https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/ARN6811_AR635-40_ADMIN_WEB_Final.pdf
MAR2 resources:
https://www.army.mil/article/100607/the_military_occupational_specialty_administrative_retention_review
https://www.hrc.army.mil/content/MOS%20Administrative%20Retention%20Review%20(MAR2)
IDES resources:
https://militarydisabilitymadeeasy.com/integrateddisabilityevaluationsystem.html
https://warriorcare.dodlive.mil/Portals/113/Documents/Policies%20Documents/DES_DoDI_1332.18_change_1.pdf?ver=M9Rxah-7rrB2u6W2XD8U7g%3d%3d
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I have seen a guy lose a leg at the knee and not only beat a MEB, but stay SF and deploy to Iraq again.
But he went into that board with an SF surgeon on his side, you won't have that.
That said, I wouldn't call the Army "stable" for a new baby, in fact it's the opposite of that.
If you love being a medic, you would probably love to work in an ER in any capacity; patient tech/CNA, LPN/LVN, RN, etc.
But if your injuries are permanent, you might also enjoy other career paths in the hospital outside of the ER that don't involve 12+ hours on your feet.
And many hospital systems have tuition and work/school programs to progress all the way from CNA to NP.
And the pay and benefits are better.
But he went into that board with an SF surgeon on his side, you won't have that.
That said, I wouldn't call the Army "stable" for a new baby, in fact it's the opposite of that.
If you love being a medic, you would probably love to work in an ER in any capacity; patient tech/CNA, LPN/LVN, RN, etc.
But if your injuries are permanent, you might also enjoy other career paths in the hospital outside of the ER that don't involve 12+ hours on your feet.
And many hospital systems have tuition and work/school programs to progress all the way from CNA to NP.
And the pay and benefits are better.
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SPC (Join to see)
Thank you SGM for the advice, I’ll have to look more into going to school for nursing.
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Combat Arms include: Infantry, Armor, Artillery (Field and Air Defense), Special Forces, Aviation (Air Cav and Attack Helicopters), and Combat Engineers. Medics are not considered Combat Arms. Can you be placed in Combat Arms units? Yes. But that does not make you Combat Arms.
Who said you cannot have a Perm profile? Is your Permanent Profile a P2 or a P3? A P2 will not trigger a MEB. A P3 or P4 will trigger one. Can you fight a MEB? Yes. As long as there is medical documentation stating that you are still, while perhaps limited, fit for duty/continued service. However, if you do have to go thru a MEB and the Final Medical Authority deems you are no longer fit for duty, there is nothing that can be done.
Who said you cannot have a Perm profile? Is your Permanent Profile a P2 or a P3? A P2 will not trigger a MEB. A P3 or P4 will trigger one. Can you fight a MEB? Yes. As long as there is medical documentation stating that you are still, while perhaps limited, fit for duty/continued service. However, if you do have to go thru a MEB and the Final Medical Authority deems you are no longer fit for duty, there is nothing that can be done.
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SPC (Join to see)
I have a P2 for lower body. I remember hearing that there is only so much they can restrict based on your MOS until they had to think about MAR2 or MEB. I appreciate the help MSG.
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COL Randall C.
SPC (Join to see) - The PULHES requirements for a 68W are 222121, which means that you can be a P2 for Physical capacity/stamina (P), upper extremities (U), lower extremities (L), and/or eyes (E) while you have to maintain a "1" in Hearing (H) and psychiatric (S). If you have anything below that, it will (should) automatically trigger a MAR2 (for instance, if you had a P2 for hearing).
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