Posted on Nov 2, 2022
How important is an NCO's reference on the civilian side? Can an NCO ruin my chance at a civilian job post military?
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I am soon to rcp out of military. I love my profession as a lab tec but have always been terrible at the army side. I struggle with pt and since I only get to go to the range once a year, I am perpetually short a hundred promotion points.
I've always been content to do my job and been satisfied with e-4 pay, since I love the lab and e-5s usually are forced to leave it. I am nationally certified for my job, but my family has made it extremely clear that they would rather see me in a body bag then out of the army which is why I remained in so long.
A year ago we have gotten a new NCO who hates me. He has stated loudly and in front of peers that he thought I was worthless because I was still 'just a specialist' that my professional experience in lab was 'unimportant/not the mission', that 'certain people shouldn't serve if they can't keep up', and that it was a 'waste of resources' to send me to any educational schools. He openly mocks me in front of my peers and the command. This man is my first line.
Recently, he stated that he thought my 10 years in the army was a waste and that civilians knew the difference between a Sgt and a spc, that no one would hire me, and he sure to hell wouldn't write me a job recommendation.
I am a good lab tec, have served honorably without demerit, and have never been flagged. There has never been an issue with my performance as a lab tech and I take immense pride in what i do. I have won several awards for what I do. I have also always met the standard army requirements. But with his influence, I have been treated like a leper in the military side for the past six months, with severe damage to my mental health.
I am terrified that this man can severely harm my chances of getting a job in the civilian sect. Our qa said hed gladly write a recommendation. I have several officers i worked with at my last duty station who would gladly as well. All the civilian laboratory staff is highly satisfied with my work and will make good references. However
i do not get interact with the command except for pt test and range so their only knowledge of me is through him. On top of that, I have to survive another 6 months under him before I can ets.
My ability to work in the lab will be my sole source of support upon exiting. I may not be a stellar soldier but im a good lab tec. What steps can I take to guard my chance at a civilian job? Could his opinion cause a severe issue especially if I wanted to get a government job?
I've always been content to do my job and been satisfied with e-4 pay, since I love the lab and e-5s usually are forced to leave it. I am nationally certified for my job, but my family has made it extremely clear that they would rather see me in a body bag then out of the army which is why I remained in so long.
A year ago we have gotten a new NCO who hates me. He has stated loudly and in front of peers that he thought I was worthless because I was still 'just a specialist' that my professional experience in lab was 'unimportant/not the mission', that 'certain people shouldn't serve if they can't keep up', and that it was a 'waste of resources' to send me to any educational schools. He openly mocks me in front of my peers and the command. This man is my first line.
Recently, he stated that he thought my 10 years in the army was a waste and that civilians knew the difference between a Sgt and a spc, that no one would hire me, and he sure to hell wouldn't write me a job recommendation.
I am a good lab tec, have served honorably without demerit, and have never been flagged. There has never been an issue with my performance as a lab tech and I take immense pride in what i do. I have won several awards for what I do. I have also always met the standard army requirements. But with his influence, I have been treated like a leper in the military side for the past six months, with severe damage to my mental health.
I am terrified that this man can severely harm my chances of getting a job in the civilian sect. Our qa said hed gladly write a recommendation. I have several officers i worked with at my last duty station who would gladly as well. All the civilian laboratory staff is highly satisfied with my work and will make good references. However
i do not get interact with the command except for pt test and range so their only knowledge of me is through him. On top of that, I have to survive another 6 months under him before I can ets.
My ability to work in the lab will be my sole source of support upon exiting. I may not be a stellar soldier but im a good lab tec. What steps can I take to guard my chance at a civilian job? Could his opinion cause a severe issue especially if I wanted to get a government job?
ETS/EAS
Job/Skill Training
Resume
Job Loss
Posted 2 y ago
Responses: 17
The majority of civilian employers won't really know the difference between a lower enlisted Soldier and an NCO unless they are former military (less than 15% of "working age" individuals are), work with the military (DOD contractor, etc), or have relatives who are/were military. In fact, you'll usually have to translate a lot of what you called the "Army side" into familiar terms so they can understand the scope and responsibilities of your non-technical skillset.
Specific to him, if the jobs you are applying for need a work reference, the simplest approach is to not even mention him and use one of the many others you mentioned. In the military, you usually have a few supervisors at any one moment. Your NCO might be your first line military supervisor, but is he also your supervisor in the lab? What about other supervisors might you have? Just pick "a work supervisor" that you have a good relationship with.
What your future employer will be looking for is a reference from someone that worked with you and/or could comment on your work performance.
Keep in mind that this is only one piece of the "do we want to hire this guy" process. Unless you're going for a "round peg in the round hole" type of job, they'll want to interview you to get the feel of how you would fit into the organization.
Overall, I wouldn't sweat it.
Specific to him, if the jobs you are applying for need a work reference, the simplest approach is to not even mention him and use one of the many others you mentioned. In the military, you usually have a few supervisors at any one moment. Your NCO might be your first line military supervisor, but is he also your supervisor in the lab? What about other supervisors might you have? Just pick "a work supervisor" that you have a good relationship with.
What your future employer will be looking for is a reference from someone that worked with you and/or could comment on your work performance.
Keep in mind that this is only one piece of the "do we want to hire this guy" process. Unless you're going for a "round peg in the round hole" type of job, they'll want to interview you to get the feel of how you would fit into the organization.
Overall, I wouldn't sweat it.
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SGT James LeFebvre
Well said, sir. As an HR professional as well as a vet, you hit the nail squarely. That's exactly what I have for my references are 3 good former supervisors.
My thought is that the labs that OP would apply to would have detailed questions in any interview covering knowledge of how the lab should work.
My thought is that the labs that OP would apply to would have detailed questions in any interview covering knowledge of how the lab should work.
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MAJ Ken Landgren
I absolutely concur about the references.
- In regard to your first line. If he denigrates you in front of the section/others then he is out of line and is a piece of shit. Any average leader knows not to this and should be curb stomped for an absolute lack of judgement. These toxic people are reasons why soldiers often do not want to stick around. Having said that, I am going to assume you will seek the path of less resistance on your way out. Try your best not to rile up the first line. However, I still want him curb stomped. My first mantra all my career was to treat everyone with dignity and respect.
- Your skill set is very portable. There are lots of civilian and military hospitals that need lab techs. Check into employment with the VA. It sounds like you are competent thus you know what tasks must be accomplished. Take inventory of what you know to make you sound more confident in interviews. Don't even think about the jackass. The battlefield is simple. It is you and the employer.
- Understand the battlefield. Stand up straight and keep a stiff upper lip.
Decide what direction you want to take an attack it. Keep us posted. Good luck. You will be fine.
- In regard to your first line. If he denigrates you in front of the section/others then he is out of line and is a piece of shit. Any average leader knows not to this and should be curb stomped for an absolute lack of judgement. These toxic people are reasons why soldiers often do not want to stick around. Having said that, I am going to assume you will seek the path of less resistance on your way out. Try your best not to rile up the first line. However, I still want him curb stomped. My first mantra all my career was to treat everyone with dignity and respect.
- Your skill set is very portable. There are lots of civilian and military hospitals that need lab techs. Check into employment with the VA. It sounds like you are competent thus you know what tasks must be accomplished. Take inventory of what you know to make you sound more confident in interviews. Don't even think about the jackass. The battlefield is simple. It is you and the employer.
- Understand the battlefield. Stand up straight and keep a stiff upper lip.
Decide what direction you want to take an attack it. Keep us posted. Good luck. You will be fine.
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MAJ Ken Landgren
What do you think I would do if I was the commander and was cognizant of his toxic leadership? MAJ Ken Landgren
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Unless you are applying to work in the same lab this will have zero effect on you.
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That varies by employer - some employers place a lot of confidence in evaluations and an applicant's job references and/or supervisor comments - the later in evaluation reports if submitted or asked for. Some give virtually no attention to military service, let alone history there other than the question, "Do you have OTHER THAN a Dishonorable Discharge?" (CAPS for emphasis.) When I'd ask applicants that question, many would be confused because it's a trick question of sorts, albeit legal. You can NOT ask, "Do you have an Honorable Discharge?" (Or Dishonorable - EEO law issues.)
Similarly, an employer cannot ask for a DD Form 214 until AFTER a job offer has been made & accepted. At that point, the DD Form 214 matters, IF the applicant lied about ANY of the data on it, i.e., discharge, MOS, awards, etc.
In short, if you suspect an former supervisiing NCO would not give you a stellar reference, WHY ASK FOR ONE?
Similarly, an employer cannot ask for a DD Form 214 until AFTER a job offer has been made & accepted. At that point, the DD Form 214 matters, IF the applicant lied about ANY of the data on it, i.e., discharge, MOS, awards, etc.
In short, if you suspect an former supervisiing NCO would not give you a stellar reference, WHY ASK FOR ONE?
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