Posted on Sep 2, 2016
How do you feel about the Army directing units to place new female Armor and Infantry officers in leadership positions ahead of males?
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Units are being told to select new female armor and infantry officers for platoon leader positions ahead of their male counterparts who have been waiting for the position.
Not sure if this guidance has extended to the NCO side.
Not sure if this guidance has extended to the NCO side.
Equal Opportunity (EO)
EO
Platoon Leader
Armor
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 54
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Who is telling units to do this? And while maybe things are much different today, but way back when LTs didn't wait in other jobs to get a platoon in the combat arms. Platoon leader was the initial job for brand new 2LTs. Then after that the good ones were considered for a second platoon like mortars or recon. And then the 1LTs were made company XOs and asst S3-air and stuff like that.
So this whole story sounds like BS. Especially since the number of female officers who have made it through the pipeline in combat arms is tiny, so what unit would be getting an infux so great that they would need guidance about their jobs? Of course maybe LT assignments in infantry and armor are much different now, but that would seem odd anyway.
So this whole story sounds like BS. Especially since the number of female officers who have made it through the pipeline in combat arms is tiny, so what unit would be getting an infux so great that they would need guidance about their jobs? Of course maybe LT assignments in infantry and armor are much different now, but that would seem odd anyway.
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Suspended Profile
CW2 (Join to see) - Interesting!!! I am reminded of an old Chinese Curse "MAY YOU LIVE IN INTERESTING TIMES" . . . Warmest Regards, Sandy :)
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I feel like most of the rest of you. It should be merit based. It should be earned. If I was put in charge knowing I didn't deserve it and someone else could do the job better than me I'd like to think in my heart of hearts if turn the job down and push for the person I knew to be the best leader.
Being too politically correct is as bad as racism. It's creates an unjust system.
Being too politically correct is as bad as racism. It's creates an unjust system.
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SPC Jenna Bisenius
Yes, it does. And listen, our military is good -- Very fair for the most part. I was in from 1994-2002 and I NEVER felt discriminated against. I was treated as a SOLDIER, not a female.
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SPC Jenna Bisenius
SGT (Join to see) - Not at all. I very much appreciated the respect shown by the male soldiers when they treated me just like everyone else rather than some female to either molly-coddle or flirt with, both get EXTREMELY tiresome when you're in what is supposed to be a professional work environment. I was in the Army for the experience, not to find a man! I could do that on my own, I hardly needed to go trolling through the military for prey. Perhaps it was because I was a hard worker with a lot of professionalism and pride and utterly refused to play the "female" card as an excuse for ANY shortcoming or to get out of doing something, but my male counterparts and superiors very rarely assumed there was something I couldn't do "just" because I was female. Or if they did, they at least gave me the chance to prove them wrong, and upon doing so, I got a sincere "well done, good job" and that was that, no more was said about it. All I can say is I wish I was shown that same professionalism in all walks of life!
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SGT (Join to see)
SPC Jenna Bisenius - I'm sorry. I was teasing you. I sure wasn't attempting to show any disrespect. Thanks for you service. I'm sure you made everything on your own. I don't know you, but from what you just wrote, it doesn't sound like you would have had it any other way.
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I won't play the down vote game. But I am calling BS. No female Lieutenants have even graduated from initial infantry or armor basic courses yet.
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But I will say one thing -- Maybe females have a harder time in combat due to not having the same body structures. I was in a co-ed platoon in basic and the men ALWAYS could outrun the females and do push-ups better. But we did better sit-ups. Always. So it may be VERY few women who can come to the physical level of you guys in combat. BUT -- If they so prove worthy, give them a chance. Am soooooooo bloody sick of hearing the "you can't keep yourselves clean" argument. Yeah, we have "innies" and you have "outies" so it is a bit more difficult...yes...but not a show stopper. Yes we CAN go for a couple of weeks without a shower. Or even wet wipes. Will we like it? No. But a damned yeast infection ain't gonna kill us, boys. It's itchy and annoying, but not a damned show stopper. I can still fucking shoot, operate, and be a good battle buddy!
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SPC Jenna Bisenius
Oh...and while I am still on this rant (lol)...I am also tired of the argument that "well, if we get into war, the men are so gentlemenly-like and old-fashioned that they will want to save the female first, rergardless of cost. Bullshit. I love that in our military that I was treated as a soldier, not as a female. So don't pull my bloody leg. That's just sexist bullshit.
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MAJ John Adams
SPC Jenna Bisenius - Were you in combat? No accusations or anything, but depending on the male soldier's background, he very well may put a woman's life and safety before his own. I know we're a dying breed, and maybe that's for the best, but there are still men around who believe they should actually protect women. Not because they need protection, but because it's what men do. And it's also because they'll let us.
As far as hygiene, I was on Reforger '75. Every single female soldier in the 1st Infantry Division on that exercise was, at one time or another, on sick call for hygiene-related issues. I HOPE it was because the Army was too dumb to teach them how to take care of things in the field, but I don't know. That information, by the way, came from a buddy who was in Division AG, working daily strength reporting for the exercise.
As far as hygiene, I was on Reforger '75. Every single female soldier in the 1st Infantry Division on that exercise was, at one time or another, on sick call for hygiene-related issues. I HOPE it was because the Army was too dumb to teach them how to take care of things in the field, but I don't know. That information, by the way, came from a buddy who was in Division AG, working daily strength reporting for the exercise.
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SPC Jenna Bisenius
I spent 7 years in Iraq (2004-2011). Yes, I was a contractor, but 70% of my fellow contractors there were ex-military like myself (few civilians are crazy enough to work in an active war zone!) and I was also working / living directly with military personnel themselves and went out on missions with them to schools, orphanages, farms, businesses, ministry buildings, etc. Together, I PERSONALLY experienced mortars, rockets, car bombs, etc. with them. One day in the IZ (which was only 4 square miles) got hit with nearly 40 mortars & rockets. And this was NOT unusual. While out in the Red Zone on a mission, my own vehicle was shot up by a PKM and the rounds not only very nearly disabled our vehicle, but one came a hair's breadth of coming through the up-armouring on the driver's side door. So yeah, I've experienced combat both with military and ex-military folks. TONS of it. We lived together, worked together, played together. I have several friends who are dead from those years in Iraq, both soldier and civilian, and I myself have had several close calls, including when all the windows in our compound were blown out due to a car bomb going off nearby. Heck, for a couple of years there, we were woken up by car bombs every morning and mortars / rockets every evening (they liked to hit us before they went to work and after they came home). So yeah, I'd say I've experienced combat and feel I have enough experience to comment intelligently on this topic. 90% of the females that I worked with, both soldier and civilian, were tough as damned nails, period.
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PV2 (Join to see)
Words of wisdom. Thank you for your service.
As one of my drill sergeants told us, "There's no fuckin' he or she in the Army. Just soldiers."
As one of my drill sergeants told us, "There's no fuckin' he or she in the Army. Just soldiers."
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I think if the soldier has proven themself as competent,and physically fit,gender doesn't pertain.
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The Army is training Soldiers(men and women) to be infantry and armor leaders. Of course some of the will be platoon leaders. If a woman has performed better than some of their male peers, shouldn't they be selected for leader positions? That's what we a training them to be. For heaven's sake why would we train them to be leaders if we don't let them lead?
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I highly doubt the authenticity of the guidance, as these women haven't completed their BOLC and follow on schools and won't show up at units until spring of 2017. If the Army is putting them in units with such an overage of LT's that there is a significant wait for PL positions, then its HRC and the local units management issue.
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PO3 Nichalas Enser
Thank you, both, for clarifying this - this is the sort of scuttlebutt that keeps it 'us vs them' when there is only us.
If someone, whoever they are, as SGM(P) (Join to see) notes, below, gets out there and earns the respect of their platoon and upper echelons, then great. If they - if they correct or overcome any deficiencies as they encounter them (just like any other newly- minted 0-1/manager on the civilian-side), then they be ushered out/reassigned.
Waiting and seeing, before bringing out the pitchfork...
If someone, whoever they are, as SGM(P) (Join to see) notes, below, gets out there and earns the respect of their platoon and upper echelons, then great. If they - if they correct or overcome any deficiencies as they encounter them (just like any other newly- minted 0-1/manager on the civilian-side), then they be ushered out/reassigned.
Waiting and seeing, before bringing out the pitchfork...
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